Which small 4WD for Europe to India?

[Simon Kennedy]

I know nothing about cars. But I might just end up driving one to India next year. So, which one?

My criteria: something small, tough and reliable. Not at all interested in performance or looks. Inside, two adults and an infant, all of whom pack very very lightly. Soft top essential. We want to pretend that it is not a car.

4WD seems a good idea, although probably not absolutely necessary. I am more concerned about the vehicle not shaking apart on a heavily pot holed roads, than going up mountains. Occasional shallow water crossings perhaps, and some gravel roads.

I saw a Suzuki Jimny Soft Top in the street the other day, and this seemed to fit the bill. Am I right?

Basically I want something that will take us on slowish poor quality roads for a distance and not break down. No pricey silly plastic bits; straightforwards engine; utility instrumentation, that sort of thing. Think rugged, boring, simple. If it helps, I ride a Honda Transalp motorcycle.

Oh, did I mention cheap?

Simon

[mustaphapint]

I'm probably going to get laughed at a bit for this idea, but if you're after something a bit unusual it sounds an ideal trip for a 2cv.
They're small, tough, reliable, will go almost anywhere, mainly open air with the soft top option and you'll certainly attract some respect for travelling in it!

I'd have no problems at all with setting off with this!

[graysworld]

I went to india in 1993 in a merc 608 bit big if you say you want a car but a few pointers...I met someone in a 2cv van who had no problems apart from an accident which bent the chassis! also travelled with a 208 merc van also no problems. I wished for a 4x4 not for potholed roads but to get to places to camp where 4x2 struggles. You definately wont need it for the roads unless you intend going to the far north in the winter. the locals dont have 4x4.
I would take a Toyota landcruiser or a Toyota surf then you have comfort and reliability, if you want a small car. I would never take a soft top for reasons of security and dust you wont believe how dusty it is! I like the idea of being able to sleep in a vehicle if needed.

Graeme

[Gipper]

Hi,
The Jimny - is not a bad little 4x4 - if you look underneath it has the same suspension set up as a Defender - live axles, coils, panhard rod/trailing arm - though a lot smaller - so it is quite a good little vehicle.
A concern would be chassis strength and quality of the running gear/ electrics.

It will also be quite a dog to drive on rough roads due to its very short wheelbase- lots of pitching.

The amount of room in them is very limited and Ive not heard of anyone overlanding in one - maybe get in contact with some Suzuki owners club -they tend to use the old SJs.

Hard Top definitely - As mentioned, dust is bad enough even with a hard top, and security too is an issue - Ive not had anything taken off a bike, but ive had a few vehicles broken into.

I would be tempted to use the 'modern day' 2cv - the Berlingo van - (a used base model - less electics etc) with the 1.9 peugoet/renault normally aspirated diesel,(bombroof and easy to service) there are a few 4x4 versions out there too - for a price, but as mentioned - you dont really need it.

It has tons of room in it to sleep in if required, lots of inbuilt stowage, you can put 15 inch rims on it - so you can fit tougher tyres and get a little more ground clearance, 10,000 mile service intervals for the 1.9 diesel, and you can pick up a good one for under 5 grand ish - and 40 to the gallon.

Theres also over 800,000 of them sold.....Ive seen a 4x4 Berlingo in the Western Sahara (went everywhere) and seen several on Farms working hard.

Cheers
Grif

[martyboy]

The berlingo is a good modern car and would do the job, and they are everywhere. The 2CV would also do the job no problem and you can pick them up dirt cheap, piss poor performance but for the trip your gonna take it would be ok, They are a bit quirky though as i remember.

[Luke]

I wonder if a Tata would make it.
They had a disastrous launch in the UK so they're cheap; but as an Indian made car you could get spares.
Otherwise Grif and I have seen a Renault 4 make it to Ghana, quirky but reliable.
Other comments ditto. The citroegeot berlingumper and the fiaeugeotroen Scudexperartner are basic reliable vans, but not ragtops.
Have fun
Luke

[martyboy]

Out of curiosity what route do you intend going ?
regards.........marty.

[Riq]

How about an Iltus.

I believe they are readily available in Europe and seem to meet your criteria of small, cheap, 4wd, soft top plus removeable doors if you want.

http://www.iltis.ca/ This is the canadian contact point but it has the specs to look at.

Rick

[armadillo]

Well, whattabout the good old land rovers. Canvas top, cheap to buy, from the UK cheap to update or prepare, they can be even comfortable if well prepared, they offer quite some protection to your family, easy to fix etc...

Examples: Extra tank for Toy: 600 Eu, for LR in Paddoks 100 eu. Rear tyre carrier: Toy 650 Eu, LR in Paddocks 80 Eu and so on...

The down side of Series LR: Noisy, (it can be corrected) Slow, (with Overdrive and a good engine 85 cruising) Thirsty no less than 12 liters a 100 Km. Uncomfortable ( Citroen seats, parabolics, gas dampers help a lot)

Everybody says they brake, and I guess it's understandable that any 30 or 45 year old vehicle (if they ever survive that long) needs some attention before a trip.

Our family have drive them for many years in daily basis and long trips, Europe, Africa, Latin America, and we NEVER, so far, had any serious problem, thanks God, (except broken spring bolt cause far out overload) however they were mechanically checked from A to Z. And whenever we encounter any minor problem it was solved with some wire, old bicycle tube or used bolts.

They can take you anywhere, as C.S. says: sometimes you'll need "every trick on the book".

Good luck !

[martyboy]

A thumbs up for the series landrover, they are cheap to buy and easy to repair, bush machanic anywhere would get you going. Downside is that even the youngest series landys are old cars now so you would need to prepare the car well for the journey. This is the one I`d go for going by your criteria restraints. A capable, reliable and inexpensive vehicle.
regards.....marty.

[Simon Kennedy]

LANDROVERS AND 2CV:
Love the look of them. Full of romanace and all that. But I had in mind a vehicle that involves no preparation and will not break. I just don't want to devote the time to putting it all together. I am no mechanic, and perhaps can learn how to fix it up, but just don't want to. I have plenty of projects on the go, not least demanding being the said infant.

THE ILTUS
Again, looks the business. Doubtless a bit more reliable, given its provenance. The only one on ebay seems a bit small.




BERLINGO
I like these vans a lot, and might buy one for the family car. The kangoo is very popular here in France. I might buy one as a family car. But I want an open top for the trip. We don't mind dust you see. All part of the experience.

THE ROUTE
The usual: Turkey, Iran, Pakistan.

SUZUKI SAMURAI
Given the smallness of the Jimny, the Samurai might be the better bet. Hairdresser's car with attitude. Reviews talk about the "woefully small engine". Sounds good.

FOUR WHEEL DRIVE SITES
Please don't make me go there again - they depress me beyond belief.

We would like to go in a sidecar outfit. The safety question is playing on my mind, thus the car idea.

Thanks for your replies so far.

Simon

[mattsavage]

Hi Simon. How much money do you want to spend on a car?

Cheers,
Matt Savage

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Simon Kennedy

But I had in mind a vehicle that involves no preparation and will not break.

That's even less than "minimalist preparation". We are moving one step closer towards Google Earth tourism.

[ChrisC]

Hi Simon

heres my tuppence worth:

2cv - recon one of these would serve you well, tough as old boots

Suzuki - not up to the job in my opinion

Pug/Ctroen berlingo - should be ok if well sorted before hand.

either of the above French vehicles would do ok for you epecially as ou live in France.

Others - consider a LR lightweight, an ex-military 90/110, both low on power but basic and more than capable.
oyota Surf - should be more that up to the job or maybe your best option would be the Toyota Hilux Double Cab Pick-up more than capable, with good load capacity - but no soft top option.
As per CS's page at the front of the site a VW Taro (VW badged Hilux), if found in good nick might be an option - not sure if they made a double cab in the VW version.

My personal opinion would be to go for either 2cv, pug/cit or Toy Hilux but if you insist on soft top ten you are seriously limiting your options.

Good luck

Chris

[Luke]

Hey Roman, breakdowns are a way of meeting the local population; didn't you know ))

Simon, for an Iltis, try www.padh.de
I don't understand German, but the prices are legible.
If you're in France see if you can pisk up an Auverland somewhere, they're so basic it's virtually impossible to find one with high kilometres. Peugeot diesel engine nice and reliable.

Google Earth tourism: Soon the satellite photos will be high enough resolution, all you have to do is send a letter asking the locals to look up when the next picture is taken

Luke