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9 Jul 2008
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What winch?
Hello,
I have converted an DAF ya4440 (ex dutch army 4X4) into a camper. I have had a good test drive in Morocco last winter and have come to the conclusion that it might be nice to have a winch.
I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences on this subject, especially on is it neccesary for a round trip Africa (west down - east up) and how big should it be? (because big winch = big money)
My truck weighs about 10.000kg fully loaded 
regards,
Henk Jan
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10 Jul 2008
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As a rule of thumb a winch should have a capacity of four times the weight of the loaded vehicle so it will need to be BIG for your truck.
As for whether you need it, I guess it depends on whether you are going to be travelling in the rainey season and how patient you are.
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Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
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10 Jul 2008
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I know about the 4 times rule but to me it seems a bit much a 40.000kg winch.
I saw a truck a few years back that had a 6.8ton winch, that seemed like a nice one/size. I had the idea of using one hydraulic winch for the front as well as the back.
I dont know if this would be enough for winching my way out of a ditch at the side of the road? Maybe using a snatch block?
Henk Jan
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11 Jul 2008
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If using a snatch block all of the time you could get away with double the vehicle weight, however the problem is will you have enough line to reach an ancor point.
The 4 time rule is based on a vehicle completely bogged up to the chassis in gloop, something you might encounter in the Congo.
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Julian Voelcker
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11 Jul 2008
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If using a snatch block all of the time you could get away with double the vehicle weight, however the problem is will you have enough line to reach an ancor point.
Having said that, the bigger winches tend to have bigger spools on them for scope for more line on them.
The 4 time rule is based on a vehicle completely bogged up to the chassis in gloop, something you might encounter in the Congo.
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Julian Voelcker
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11 Jul 2008
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Thanks Julian,
I think I will forget about a winch for now, a 40ton winch is just to expensive and to heavy.
Henk Jan
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11 Jul 2008
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My opinion is that in this weight category you have to use common sense rather than rely on rule-of-thumb. A 40ton winch will weigh well over a ton itself; the 25t ones that army recovery vehicles use weigh over 2t. A snatch block capable of sustaining 40t of load will be nearly half a tone on its own! A 40t winch would be unlikely fit between the chassis rails and would be likely to require major vehicle modifications. This is obviously unfeasible for a 10t motorhome type vehicle and so a compromise needs to be made and the limitations accepted.
The only trucks in the 10t and above weight class I have seen that get anywhere near meeting the 4x rule, are those whose sole purpose it is to recover other vehicles, wreckers, spec-lifts and the like.
Fitting a lower rated winch need not be dangerous if used within its limits but one cannot expect it to haul the vehicle fully loaded out of a truly dire swamp-like situation
I am certainly no expert on these matters but one needs to be practical.
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11 Jul 2008
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I agree nickdisjunkt, the only winches I have seen on trucks my size are in the range of 4-7ton winches but I am also no expert.
I know the german army uses 5 or 6 ton winches on their MAN-cat.
I do not intend to get myself in blubber up to the chassis, I don't have the intention to go seriously offroading through africa but eventually you might encounter a slippery road or something.
What I intend to say is: Do you need a winch to go overland trough Africa and not only the "highway" roads but also the "B" roads (if you understand what I mean). And if you do need a winch it what will be a resonable one?
Henk Jan
Last edited by metdaffieopreis; 11 Jul 2008 at 19:58.
Reason: spelled a name wrong
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11 Jul 2008
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do you need a winch
Maybe ask youself how many local trucks have winches? Friends of mine got stuck waited for the next truck to come, they pulled them out and so it went. everyone helping each other. locals get stuck too. you are never alone in these places and people are willing to help, a good tow rope or strap is cheaper and lighter than a winch! people fit expensive winches and never use them.
Graeme
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11 Jul 2008
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Militaries usually fit winches with a capacity of 40-75% the weight of the vehicle. These are always hydraulic winches which are capable of long full load pulls without overheating. Forget about electric, even a 16500 lb (7.5 tonne) Warn. They will quickly overheat with a heavy vehicle.
I have a 15000 lb Superwinch on the rear of my U500 and a 20000 lb DP on the front.
Warn has come out with a hydraulic 20XL which is rated at 20000 lb and is relatively cheap, about US$2200. It weighs 306 lb in in the short drum version and carries 148' (~41m) of 9/16" (14mm) wire rope. the wide drum version carries about 75m. I think both versions are less than 30" (750mm) wide.
It's just not feasible to fit a winch rated at 4, 2 or even 1.5 times GVM to a heavy vehicle unless the truck is a dedicated wrecker and the winch is fitted on the bed behind the cab. With my crawler gears I can precisely match tire speed to winch speed so I figure the truck can do a good job of assisting the winch.
A good kinetic tow rope (KERR) is for the money more valuable than a winch. For a 10 tonne vehicle get a 40mm Marlow KERR or equivalent. For over 12 tonnes get a 48mm.
Charlie
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12 Jul 2008
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winch
Quote:
Originally Posted by graysworld
Maybe ask youself how many local trucks have winches? Friends of mine got stuck waited for the next truck to come, they pulled them out and so it went. everyone helping each other. locals get stuck too. you are never alone in these places and people are willing to help, a good tow rope or strap is cheaper and lighter than a winch! people fit expensive winches and never use them.
Graeme
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Spot on! We travelled along the African west coast during rainy season in an LC, never got stuck. Helped some locals to get unbogged. Did not see any local trucks with winches. Better spend the money on good mud tires!
Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl
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13 Jul 2008
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For a vehicle that size, I think I'd save my money and lash out instead on some waffles or aluminium PSP - you'd need at least twice the wheelbase for that vehicle.
If you are really desperate to spend some money how about diff locks? or some good quality air bags used by the truck recovery guys.
Winches breed an over confidence, "I can do that, I've got a winch". Stuck to the chassis rails in mud and waiting for the dry season to dig out your pride and joy is not fun. Self recovery winches cant pull 10 tonnes out, mainly because you can never find something to hook onto that will survive the pulling forces.
With small winches you have to bear in mind that the whole winch is rated for say 4000kgs - that means the chassis mounting bolts and cable as well. Start pulling 10000kgs with a couple of snatch blocks and you can start to have some very dangerous forces at play.
BTW I'm sure that I've seen a mid mounted PTO winch on a Dutch army truck somewhere, they are far better as you can pull yourself backwards and out of the trouble you've driven into, rather than keep going forwards and further into the shite.
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21 Jul 2008
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Thanks everyone for your input.
I think i will not mount a winch, mainly because of the last few posts, these made a lot of sense to me. Just use your mind and try not to get stuck.
thanks again everyone
Henk Jan
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21 Jul 2008
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Have you looked at what the army do to recover these trucks - might be worth asking around.
Also if you went for the 3.2tonne tirfor with an appropriate snatch block from Rotzler (200mm dia as used with german army unimogs) you might stand a chance if there is a big enough tree to anchor to - but be very carefull!
Did a quick youtube search
YouTube - A brief look around REME Bordon (Part Two)
sure there's lots more worth watching
This is what you don't want
YouTube - Will we make it?
Take your time and keep control
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Chris
-----------------
"Never have a stupid argument with an idiot - he gets a lot more practice than you"
there I go again
not too hard really
Last edited by silver G; 21 Jul 2008 at 10:41.
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