Matt,

Good point. We've already found ourselves in lots of situations on previous short trips, though, where the high ground clearance and extra power of a 4x4 was essential - climbing the last rock pile to the edge of the glacier in iceland, or getting out to one of the far temples in belize, or reaching some of the outlying national parks in madagascar or tanzania.

On those short trips we're always driving rented vehicles, and sometimes can't find 4x4s - and we've found that it does crimp our explorations. The Skoda we rented in Ghana was a nice little car, but we had some really nervous moments on some of the back roads/lanes ...

It probably depends a lot on your travel style, though. If all you're planning on hitting are the bigger destinations with ok roads, and not going during the rainy season, then a nice car probably works.

I definitely know there are lots of travelogues out there by people doing exactly that - someone even did London to Cape Town in a VW bug!

>>>Does anyone have an opinion on the Hilux surfs?

There are plenty around in the UK aren't there (most, if not all from RHD and gadget-loving Japan). I spent a day researching them recently, looking for something different from the obvious TLC and LR and later met an owner of one I sold some oversize tyres to. Glad I did not get one in the end (though it would not have been for overlanding).
They come in various levels of spec but, although they are as good as any Toyota, I believe the OTT gadgetry (it really can be OTT with Jap imports...) may start causing probs on an overland trip.
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2524

There's a good feature on buying Defenders in the current 4x4 Mart magazine, the whole picture, good and bad.

Chris S
http://www.sahara-overland.com/desertute

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Thanks for that Chris. I've jsut returned from seeing a Surf and the over riding worry was that everything was electronic. The vehicle itself seemed a nice enough drive, but was definitely concerned for the electronics.

What I need to see now is a Land Cruiser, and once I'ce seen one of those I think I can start making some real decisions.

ANy thoughts on the best model/year etc to go and have a look at, anyone?

Thanks for all the help so far .......

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

>>>ANy thoughts on the best model/year etc to go and have a look at, anyone?

If you think you need a 4WD cant go wrong with a mid-90s 80 with FSH if you just want something that works - spend about 8k. Someone earlier said 80s have "primitive suspension" but I think they're confusing them (coils all round, like all modern cars) with leaf-sprung 60s (up to 1989).
Most 80s in the UK are autos, a plus Imho. Make sure you get one with a/c (you're 4-up with kids, right?) - most UK autos had it anyway. No need to be freaked out by high 200k+ mileages, as you might be with other cars.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Thanks Chris .....

We're goingto spend the next couple of weeks looking, and then make a decision and try and buy something!!! All very exciting .......

Anyone got anything they want to sell?

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

Don't write off the Surf/4Runner so quickly: I've been buggering around in Africa for 2 years so far with no real problems. The UK 4Runners are not overloaded with electronics and make for a cheap overlanding vehicle.

http://www.elphick-pooley.co.uk/htm/index.htm

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Enzo

Hi Jaremy - nothing ruled out yet, but starting to get nearer to decision time. Its funny, I'm desperate to buy the vehicle, because I know that's where the journey starts, but at the same time I'm desperate to get the right vehicle, and this is making me a little apprehensive of ecerything I look at .....

Can't wait though

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

You might need to do a check on what you will do with the vehicle at the end of the trip in Oz. Currently there are only two ways to privately import a vehicle into Australia - a carnet or an import approval.

With a carnet the vehicle has to leave the country - no exceptions or face some hefty costs. So you might want to check costs of re-exporting the vehicle before bringing it in. You need to buy insurance for third party injury which is compulsory.

An import approval is only granted to someone who has a residency visa or is an Australian citizen. You have to own the vehicle for more than 1 year, you pay 10% duty plus 10% GST on the landed value. The vehicle then has to be registered in Oz which involves a series of inspections. Its a far more complex task than obtaining registration in the UK.

Landrovers have a love/hate reputation in Oz, Toyota Landcruisers dominate the market and have a better resale value if that is a concern.

I agree that the surf may be a good option and from my experience (my g/f owns one) the electronics that power them are absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Very reliable in that respect. For what you pay for a Surf, you get an extremely well equiped car.
As all of the surfs in Australia came in as low volume imports, you will never know the full service history of the car. Before these cars made it to Aus, the owners in Japan probably neglected the servicings, as they pretty much throw away their cars once they reach 3 or 4 years of age. Oil changes at 5000kms and regular cooling system maintenance is a must on these cars. If the service history (since it's been in Australia) of a particular car is questionable, give it a miss.
The biggest problem you will have with a Surf in Australia is when you try to sell it. Lots of people are scared of them and they are not easy to sell.
In my opinion, if you want a no-frills, tough, extremely relaible car with better re-sale prospects at the end of your trip, you really couldn't go past a Hilux.

Hi Ollie,

Running an LC owners club I'm totally biased so vote for the LC route as well. It's a long trip and you will be thankfull for the comfort and reliability.

The pricing for LCs is all over the place, but I would have thought that you could pickup a reasonable base vehicle for £6-8000, you just need to be patient and bide your time.

I spent some time last year looking at over a dozen 80s for some people doing a similar trip and it is worth noting that the 100,000 mile mark is a point where things like brake disks, clutches, etc need looking at - not expensive to deal with, but if you get something over 100,000 they will most likely have been dealt with.

There are stacks of companies out there willing to kit the vehicles for your, however your best bet is to do all the research yourself and then do the work yourself, that way you get to know the vehicle which is very important for the sort of trip you are going to do.

On the electronics side of things, yes the 80 series have some, but they are designed and built like the rest of the LC, for reliability so not worth loosing sleep over.

On the Hiluxes/Surfs side of things, I may be wrong, but some of the newer ones have independant front suspension and there are issues with raising the suspension on independant front suspension vehicles causing additional wear on the CV joints. Also I has a problem with a local game keeper's newish Hilux last year where the driveshaft actually popped out of the diff during some mild off roading, so something to be wary of, although Enzo might have other views.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

It all comes down to budget. I prob. would have bought a LC 80 or sim if I had had the money at the time, I didn't though, and so I make the best of what I've got.

My 4Runner shares its engine with the LC 70, 73 and 77 as well as the early Prado's/Colorados. Modern Colorado's/Prados have the uprated KZ-TE engine (EFI) whereas the 4Runner has the older (non-EFI) KZ-T, less electronics are better for bush repairs. Best mod I did though was to increase the size of the radiator: from 3 core to 5 core.

If the LC you buy comes with a big 4.2L diesel lump then all the better - they go on forever, but the later models have more electrickery so look for earlier models. Good 76 and 78 series LCs can be bought from Gov auctions in Oz and they usually come with all the kit necessary for a long run: extra tanks, bullbars, snorkel, split-rims etc and NO japanese chrome!

4Runners have huge luggage space but are restricted for more than two adults. They are great for 2 adults and two kids but try sticking two adults in the back for any length of time then it wouldn't belong before the waste product hits the proverbial whirly bladed object. What I was going to do when I planned to take 1 client on a trans african trip was lose the back seat: suddenly you have ACRES of space to fill! And a few handy attachment points too. But you'll have to make a plan for the roof rack - I've got a full length one that is excellent and cheap to make up.

Anyway, you pays your money...

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Enzo