Ok then. A few of us are out in Iraq at the minute and the daily subject seems to be what ride a few of us can do summer next year. This got us thinking about a few routes.

Initially it was through Spain to Morocco - Algeria - Tunisia - Sicily etc. But I then found out that you can not cross the border between Morocco and Algerian. We physically would not have time to head further south into Mauritania so that meant Africa at the moment is ruled out.

So today we came up with this.

Countries Travelled. England/ Belgium/ Holland/ Germany/ Czech repub/ Austria/ Slovakia/ Hungary/ Romania/ Bulgaria/ Turkey/ Kos/ Greece/ Italy/ Switzerland/ Germany/ Holland/ Belgium/ England

Numbers relate to days.

1. London - Gutersloh 397 miles
2. Gutersloh - Berlin - Prague 422 Miles
3. Prague - Vienna - Bratislava 243 miles
4. Bratislava - Budapest - Arad 297 Miles
5. Arad - Bucharest 337 Miles
6. Bucharest - Burgas 264 Miles
7. Burgas - Istanbul 220 Miles
8. istanbul - Bodrum :confused1: 516 miles
9. Bodrum - Kos - Athens Mainly ferry
10. Athans - Patras - Brindisy 132
11. Brindisy - Rome 335 Miles
12. Rome - Lake Como 410 Miles
13. Lake Como - San Benardino Pass - Stelvio Pass - 174
14. Stelvio - Frankfurt 384 Miles
15. Frankfurt - London 439 miles

There are some huge mileage days. to start with though London to Gutersloh. all motorway. Nothing To see really passing through. Gutersloh to Prague via Berlin. Again a fair old day but mainly motorway with good roads. Berlin is planned for a bit to eat and a few photos. The day that really concerns us the most is Istanbul to Bodrum although we could push on furthur than Istanbul. What are the roads like? Would this mileage be possible in Turkey? There is nothing we really want to see in Turkey. Its just a case of being that close we might as well cross the border.

Are there any problems getting into Turkey? How long does it usually take and are any extra documents required in relation to the bike?

If anyone has any pointers of roads. or places to go in any of the transiting countries then let me know. Any advice appreciated. As you can see this is mainly going to be a city tour although there will be some pretty spectacular roads coming through the north of Italy.

Furture rides will involve Africa - Sacndinava & Russia. Dont know why but there is just something that appeals to me in riding to Moscow. the strange thing is I had hardly any interest in travel before obtaining my licence. Now I cant get enough mile in.

Anyway enough waffle over to the pros

Hi Tomo

That's quite an ambitious schedule you have there. This is however the sort of planning I am always doing myself. I have toured Eastern Europe several times, and have just returned from a bike trip to Turkey, Greece and the Balkans. 4600 miles is do-able in 15 days but you'll be a bit knackered at the end of it. I typically have done 3500 to 4500 miles in 20 days on my previous tours.

North Africa: I should mention that, while I think the Moroccan-Algerian border is indeed closed, there is a ferry from Spain to Algeria (Almeria to Ghazouet? Can't remember). More research would be needed on carnets, ferries, visas and the like for Algeria. I worked in Algeria from 1996-99, and it isn't the safest place in the world, but I personally would be prepared to ride across the country, given a carefully chosen route and perhaps some, er, "tactical" riding. The remainder of a round-the-western Med route via Tuniusia, Sicily etc would not be a problem.

Back to your route. First, Berlin is quite a detour form your Gutersloh-Prague route. Might be better off going via Erfurt, Thuringer Wald and/or the western Czech spa towns instead? I think Berlin is a great place, but it's a long detour with lots of Autobahn.

I think the next part of your route from Prague to Bucharest is certainly do-able. Roads in Hungary are good, and they are not bad on the main routes in Romania, although there are too many psychopaths on the Romanian roads for my liking (they currently top my list of the worst drivers in Europe).

I haven't biked through Bulgaria (we went through the country a month ago on the "Serbian Prison Motorail Train", and I won't be doing that again...) However your Bulgarian mileages are not huge so I reckon you'll be OK. Road quality is however an unknown...

Turkish border: allow an hour or so to cross. You will need your original V5 for the bike. You can buy insurance at the border for I think 15 Euros (although my Carole Nash green card covered me), and you need to buy a visa for about 10 Euros, easily got at the border.

The motorway to Istanbul is a toll road but smooth & fast. Istanbul is now a HUGE city (bigger than London, it has over 11m people...) with HUGE traffic, so allow time to get through. Roads in Asian Turkey are relatively uncrowded, and we followed mainly dual carriageways around the south side of Marmara. There were no potholes but the roads were a bit "lumpy", you wouldn't want to do more than 70 mph, and I was glad I was on a GS and not a sportsbike. One thing to bear in mind is that Turkey, Greece and Albania are HOT in July/August; you would be tortured in full leathers (I wore Cordura), and I personally will only go biking down there again outside the high summer months. Note, fuel is currently expensive in Turkey, as are hotels in Istanbul.

Highlights of our trip were: Gallipoli battlefield tour; Lake Ohrid in Macedonia; Kotor and the huge cloverleaf-shaped fjord in Montenegro; Dubrovnik; Plitvicka lakes park in Croatia, and high passes in the Italian Alps. There are some pretty good roads in Macedonia, Slovenia and Croatia (away from the busy Adriatic coast road).

I am actually thinking of doing one of the following next summer in an attempt to do some touring without the extreme heat of the South:
(1) Scandinavia and the Baltic States, with a nip into Russia at St Petersburg and also Kaliningrad. I went round the Baltic back in 1994, it would be interesting to see how things haver changed. A Visa is required for Russia, a minor hassle.
(2) UK-Romania-Moldova (er, and Transdnistria) then into Ukraine hopefully as far as the Crimea, possibly returning via Belarus (if the Belarus visa is not too much hassle). I biked to Ukraine in 2005 and have been itching to get back since.

Cheers
Nigel

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Moto ergo sum

it is about 328 miles per days. it is doable, however you wouldn't have time for sightseeing. you will just ride, find a hotel eat and sleep

have fun

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ozhan u.
website under construction

I agree with ozhanu, it's possible, but you will be driving all the time. If that's want you want - fine!

You will be riding approx 1400 km in Turkey (870 mils), be aware that the top speed for motorbikes in Greece and Turkey is 70 km/h (80 km/h on Motorways)! Yes, it's km/h and not mls/h! If this is too slow for you, reserve some of your budget for the police in Turkey, because they will get you sooner or later.

You can do Istanbul-Bodrum in one day, getting up early. I spent a couple of days crossing Turkey and riding 800 -1100 km per day, but that's from dusk till dawn. However, I could not respect the speed limits, riding at 120/130 km/h .
If you enter Turkey at Edirne, this should be quick. I think you will need a green insurance card for the bike, but check this at your national automobile club.

Plan also some buffer for bad weather.
If some unforseen things happen, have a plan B ready. My suggestion is to carry along the departure schedule and telephone numbers of the ferries from Cesme-Ancona (Marmara Lines) and Greece to upper Italy, as well the timetable of the car trains from upper Italy to Western Germany (DB Autozug - Startseite). In case you would be in a massive hurry, you could speed up a bit.

Have fun!

Robert

I'd say i'm pretty similar to what others are saying. Is it do-able? Absolutely. I did right on 4000 over 17 days or so this summer. Did I get to somewhere I really wanted to get to (Romania) yes...

It's a hard call. A lot of people will say you are just going to ride all day, which is pretty much true, but if you REALLY want to see the place (e.g. Turkey), then maybe it's worthwhile. My trip paid off, as whilst I would have loved to spend more time in Crotaia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Serbia etc. I really did relish Romania and what I saw there. So if you are desparate for Turkey, that's your option, but beware that everywhere you go, you will probably wish you could stay longer (and you can't), and freeway riding does get very very boring after a few days. We limited to about 4 days on the trip where we did significant miles on freeways, and they were the least fun days by a long mile.

As others said as well, if you are going to places off motorway, cut your estimates in half. Lot's of traffic, low speed limits, lot's of crooked cops. It took about twice as long for us to cover our 'short' days (<150 miles) out in E. Europe than we expected.

We did a 500 mile day too, it was not fun!!!! Although the tasted great after that one

I agree with Graham. MRS.X and i did a huge mile trip over 20 days this summer. we did 2.5 days to Romania from the uk midlands and 3 on the way back and then low miles while in Romania.. But this was the plan. Suffer and see nothing to get to the "new" place. Enjoy as much as possible while there.

If you just want to ride and much and as far as possible.. i would say go for it. but remember you will see nothing and pay premium for hotels (as you will have little time to look and will be so tired that you will take the first one with good parking).

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2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com

Here's a trip report from a similar trip that I've just returned from, might give some pointers and add to the great advice you've already received.......

A year ago a small group of us had a great idea to go down to Fethiye in Turkey during the school summer holidays to a friends apartment as his wife was going to be there with the kids anyway.

Despite many boozy planning nights where very little planning got done but lots of good bike chat was had….the leaving date rushed up on us and we were off. There were 5 of us with a variety of bikes, me F650GS(2008), an R1150GS, an R1200GSA, an R1200GS and an R1150RT.



Day 1 St Albans – St Quentin(France) 251 miles

Thursday evening 15:30 was an earlier start than our planned early Friday start…the idea being we could steal a march on our planned 374 miles a day average and actually get to do some sightseeing etc along the way. Thanks to the some unkind traffic on the M25 (there’s a surprise eh) we were late to the tunnel and missed our train 18:40…great start. Thankfully though we’d all managed to assemble there and spirits were high. If you’ve done the tunnel, you’ll know it’s great (bit pricey) and in 30 mins or so we were in France for about 21:00. The skies soon turned dark and rain poured down…..spirits not dampened though and we pressed on into the dark and we and arrived at our planned hotel in St Quentin at about 23:45…..just in time for everything to shut, so kebabs for dinner it was….thankfully the kebab shop also sold .

Day 2 St Quentin – Augsberg(Germany) 451 miles

The plan for Day to was to press on through the French Toll roads and kill some miles so we could enjoy what we saw as the best part of the trip in the later days. Some diversions and fun through the Black Forest meant we fell slightly short of our goal and meant for a late (22:00) finish to our riding, but did well all the same. Oh it rained all day too.

Day 3 Augsberg – Rakek(Slovenia) 327 milesGetting colder as we got higher into the Alps (11°…is that right for August) we had yet more rain. The roads and all the tunnels were great despite the tourist queues (thank god for filtering eh). We eventually started our decent in to Slovenia to blue skies and warming temperatures (24°….now that’s more like it). First night camping by the lake……lovely, sensible 19:30 finish to riding too.

Day 4 Rakek– Sibenik(Croatia) 308 miles



A day of lovely sunshine and generally trying to catch up some miles. Ended short again (!!!) but sensible finish (19:00) though awful campsite…..give this place a miss if you ever come this way.

Day 5 Sibenik – Cetinje(Montenegro) 258 miles

Two of our number returned this morning as they had shorter holidays than the rest of us…..so we split near Split ! The rest of us pressed on and the roads just got better and better…….the sun shone and the temperatures got higher and higher. Split to Dubrovnik road is great…..sweeping bends with a gorgeous turquoise sea to you right the whole time. Unfortunately we had to keep on going right passed Dubrovnik as we were getting further and further behind schedule (another time maybe).



Into Montenegro there was a lushness to the countryside and some truly outstanding roads….particularly up to Cetinje (the best I have ever ridden). 16 hours riding and only 258 miles…..indication of the roads and borders for you !!!

Day 6 Cetinje – Thessaloniki(Greece) 379 miles
Bit of a mixed day this one, lovely start that quite quickly just went downhill. Ripped off for green cards at the Serbian border, fined by police (robbed ) 500yrds later. Hassle all the way through Kosovo…….couldn’t get out quick enough…….if I never go there again it will be too soon. Not enough Euro’s left between us to be fleeced at the Macedonian border too…….so one paid and the rest had to wait to be bailed our after long ride to nearest cashpoint. Getting sick of the day and all it’s hassles we rode on into the night heading for Europe (Greece) and our salvation. Arrived in Thessaloniki at about 23:45 for a few well earned s.

Day 7 Thessaloniki – Canakkale(Turkey) 309 milesOur option of a ferry from here to Turkey soon turned out to be a no-go, so we hit the great Greek motorways and were making fantastic time despite the temperatures now reaching the late thirties. Then one of the bikes developes a petrol leak…….a fuel tank line is split. A simple repair would have been possible is our good friends BMW didn’t use impossible to remove clips (without their special tool). A Greek mechanic came to our aid and fixed the bike up but not before we’d emptied the whole tank of fuel all over the bike and ourselves !!!! Back on the road we made it into Turkey. The roads then got worse as we headed down to Eceabat for the short ferry hope to Canakkale……..along with 10 million trucks. Arrive 23:30……note to self must stop having such late finishes.

Day 8 Canakkale – Fethiye(Turkey) 474 miles

Awful roads gradually getting better the further south we went. Heading south the temperatures also rose peaking at 44°…..thank god for vents and camelbacks. Not much to report other than our speeding ticket for doing 65mph on a duel carriageway in the middle of nowhere……despite there being no signs apparently the limit is 45mph !!!! Arrived a 19:00……only 2 hours later than we had planned to when we set off 8 days earlier……I think we did very well for our first big trip. There followed a well earned 6 days holiday with our families who had all flown out there.



Total distance there 2,757 miles


Return Day 1 Fethiye – Cesme(Turkey) 265 miles

For most of us our trip had been about ‘getting there’ and the challenge of the distance and all the various countries. Once in Turkey we wanted to spend as much time with our families as possible. We also didn’t fancy more of the Serbian stuff again, so a return route via Italy was agreed. This gave us a short ride to Cesme (watching out for all the speed traps this time) to catch a car ferry to Brindisi in Italy. If you come here, don’t bother going to board at the allotted time (24:00) as they load bikes last regardless of you being at the front of the queue (we got there at 22:45)……we eventually got to board at 04:30 !!!!!!!

Day 2&3 Cesme – Brindisi(Italy) 0 miles

When we booked this we had in our minds ‘short cruise’……what we got was Turkish car ferry……enough said. Thankfully we booked a cabin….even if it was below the car deck and waterline.

Day 3 Brindisi – Foggia(Italy) 157 miles

Supposed to dock at 18:30…..2 hours late, still after 2 days lazing about, drinking and playing cards etc. we were keen to lay down some miles. Off into the dark yet again………decided to call it a day in Foggia (don’t ask me why and no jokes please)……spent an hour and a half looking for hotel……bit of a dump, funny old place Foggia. To bed 1:30….so much for the early night plans eh.

Day 4 Foggia – Luzern(Switzerland) 668 miles

Great days riding….what a lovely country Italy is…..I must get to see more of it sometime. Italian bikers soon showed us the way they use motorways……if ever traffic slows down they all go onto the hard shoulder…..magic a special extra lane just for bikers. Temperatures really dropped this day…32°in the morning as we set off down to 12° when we stopped in Switzerland. Finished about 23:00 again…….lovely old town centre in Luzern….great if quirky hotel….but nearly everywhere and everything shut as it was Sunday !!!! Guinness and crisps for dinner !!!

Day 5 Luzern – St Albans 662 miles

Early start (07:00) for the big push home. Roads and riding great all day…..making amazing time till 10 miles out of Calais I run out of petrol !!! The OBC said I had 6 miles left and every other time I’ve run that low it’s even gone below zero !!!! Only 2 of us left and not enough petrol to siphon either …… oh well 2 hours later we’re back on the road again. Late for the train and get pushed further back too as it’s bank holiday weekend (not the best place to wait !!) eventually get back onto UK soil at 21:40 and home by 23:00ish……with a nice cuppa.

Total distance back 1,752 miles

Total overall diatance 4,509 miles

My bike (F650GS) performed brilliantly, I bought it for the trip after only passing my full test in March this year. I did mistakenly own an R1200GS for 3 weeks but this turned out to be to big and heavy for me. I bought the bike with the following;

- heated grips
- centre stand
- BMW bash plate
- Handguards
- OBC
- ABS
- Vario Panniers

I added, the BMW touring screen, Zumo GPS, scottoiler, ultraseal and Autocom 200 before we set off. I also had the original bar-ends machined so that they could be used with the handguards and this reduced the vibration (tip BMW….don’t use aluminium for bar ends !!).

During the trip the scottoiler was great and I only had to adjust the chain once. No other problems with the bike at all……..a fine steed alround, most happy with it. It was quite capable of mixing it with the bigger bikes the whole time, only occasionally being held back by my lack of riding experience.

Zumo GPS fantastic, up to Croatia, then a bit wooley or vague…..wouldn’t have done without it though.

Other great bits of kit;

- Rev-it Cayanne Pro Jacket & Dakar Pants
- Rev-it Desert Gloves
- Ortlieb Roll Bag
- Oxtar Touring Boots
- Vango Venon 150 Sleeping Bag

Bit disappointed with Autocom though as between the 3 main team members we only had comms working on 1 day…..it was great then if a bit quiet……I could hear nothing above 60mph (GPS, Ipod or bike-2-bike). Paired with Kenwood TK3201’s too.

If I did it all again (which I would), I’d plan a bit more, not go quite so far or give myself a bit more time. I also would avoid Serbia/Kosovo.

The other thing I just thought - maybe look at the motorail down to villach Austria (from dusseldorf) either on the outbound / inbound leg.

Will add a bit of cash you have to spend, but you will cover near enough 1000km, can get some rest, drink some s and give your backside a rest while still covering plenty of ground.

Could be an idea. I looked into it but couldn't get the right day i wanted.

We got the DB-Autozug from Dusseldorf to Bolzano, and the same route back. We originally planned to go Dusseldorf-Villach but it was booked up. Bolzano is a pretty good place to use, because the Dolomites are on your doorstep (superb mountain roads, great views) and it's not far from Villach anyway. The DB train was right on time, efficiently run and, considering that it saved us a night's accommdation and a lot of petrol, pretty good value too.

Not so the "other" train... We also went one-way on the Optima Express from Villach to Edirne. This train cost us about twice as much as the DB train. It took 36 hours (2 days and a night). Optima is a Serbian company, and the train itself uses ex-German rolling stock, probably 1950s or 1960s vintage. I think the train had last been cleaned in about 1960. There was no AC, the usual tiny sink was the only washing water supply, it was very hot on board and everyone (except us) was smoking most of the time. The dining car menu was printed on a grotty slip of paper and included 5 items (soup, chips, toast, schnitzel and something unidentifiable). When you flushed the loo, it simply opened a flap and you could see the track flashing by below. We were not allowed off the train at any point, and at every border (Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Turkey), the crew herded us back into our seats while the border guards (some were quite officious) came around. It was like the Gestapo papers-checking sketch in an old wartime escape film! To be honest the crew were trying their best, but you could tell that they were not very experienced. By the end of the trip, the 6 of us in our sweaty, cramped cabin (3 Turks, 2 Brits and a German) treated each other like old mates and had named the train the "Serb Prison Train". At the Bulgarian border we exchanged an electric loco for a dirty, smoke-belching diesel that trundled across the country at 45 mph max. At the last stop in Bulgaria, in a grotty siding, the train was mobbed by gypsy kids, all begging. We finally emerged from the train filthy, sweaty and knackered, to face a long & convoluted process to get us and the bikes into Turkey. What an experience: next time, I'll be riding from Austria to Turkey instead...

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Moto ergo sum

Don't listen to Nigel, the Optima Express from Austria to Turkey was a hoot!

It was every bit as bad as he describes, mind, but for me at least that was what gave it its charm. Charm is not really the right word. I agree that the crew had the right attitude, and were doing the best with what they had.

Riding through France, Switzerland , Italy and Austria was beautiful it is true. But it was only once I boarded the Optima Express that I felt the adventure was truly beginning. This was the start of the exotic replacing the familiar.

For more on Optima Express (and a lot of other things), click my Trip link below

By Futura to Istanbul. And beyond? - ApriliaForum sponsored by AF1 Racing, inc.

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Seek Truth

15 countries in 40 days. Tanks, crashes, minefields and Kalashnikovs

Hi Tomo,
the roads in Bulgarian vary a great deal If you stick to the main roads, ie Ruse - Burgas - Lesovo, you will be ok. If you wander onto smaller roads you won't. The road out of the crossing area from Romania at Ruse is bad, but once you get out of the town it gets better. Beware of Bulgarian police with radar guns on their cars, hiding under bridges and in the shade of trees.
I would advise you to allow more time for crossing the border into Turkey. It is not unusual for it to take 2 - 3 hours.
If you want a different route through Romania, and who wouldn't, you could cut south-east across the country from Timisoara to Ruse, or go south from Timisoara to Calafat, where there is a ferry across the Danube, and then travel east across Bulgaria instead of Romania. Roads are better and much less traffic.
Finally, in answer to your comment about not wanting to stop and see anything in Turkey, just wait till you get there, you might change your mind. It's a great country.
Have a great time,
Regards,
Martin T. Jeffes
Sakar Hills Touring Park. (Home)
Harmanli
South Bulgaria

Hi UKTomo and assoc., has the proposed route changed at all? Just curious...