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  #1  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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…I wonder if I could buy a used Vespa in Germany, get export plates, and easily sell it in Italy.

I also wonder if there are closer countries with export plates, e.g. Switzerland.
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  #2  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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If I'm reading this right, a vehicle with more than 6000km is considered used in Europe.

Does that mean I can buy a brand new Vespa in Germany with export plates (skipping VAT), ride it for 6000km, and then sell it to someone in Italy who won't have to pay VAT because it's now used?
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  #3  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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Your best bet is to write to a major retailer of (used) Vespas in Italy and describe the situation. Buy the bike from them with a repurchase agreement. Have them help with paperwork. Lose some money compared to a private deal, save a lot of headache.
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Old 3 Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
If I'm reading this right, a vehicle with more than 6000km is considered used in Europe.

Does that mean I can buy a brand new Vespa in Germany with export plates (skipping VAT), ride it for 6000km, and then sell it to someone in Italy who won't have to pay VAT because it's now used?
At first the EU garantees a free movements of goods for EU citizens. As you are a foreigner or non EU citizen you have to have find out what rules are valid for you because you will act like a classical export/importer when you buy in one country and sell in another.

You cannot skip the VAT if you buy and sell in the EU. To skip VAT you have to export to a non EU country!

If you buy as a private person a new vehicle in EU country A and you sell it with as a used vehicle to a private person in EU counry B, the buyer hasn`t to pay any VAT.

VAT has only to be paid if it is a new vehicle. Every kind of vehicle under 6000km on the clock and with a date of registration younger than 6 months will be seen as a new vehicle!

But if you sell the new vespa bought in Germany in Italy after 6 months of use with more than 6000km and older than 6 months to a dealer or a private person than only local (italian) taxes and fees must be paid. Also you have to inform the customs in Germany and in Italy if the value of the vehicle is higher than 1000€!

My advice:
- accept only cash if you sell because it is a private deal!
- never send out any digital copies or photos of vehicle documents to anyone
- a copy of the buyers passport or ID must be part of a written sale and purchase agreement
- sale and purchase agreement must contain all data of the buyer including contact data and date/time of handover
- sale and purchase agreement must exclude all warranties for defects. You sell as "sold as seen and proofed by the buyer under excluding all warranties"
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  #5  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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Thanks for your replies!

I wrote a dealer last night at your suggestion. The quote I got back was 2640EUR for only 2600km. Plus, they are closed for the rest of August.

It also seems I misread that EU VAT page in my late night sleepiness, missing the crucial AND in "6 months AND 6000km" for a vehicle to be considered used.

I'll keep looking. It's seeming like renting might be the most reasonable option (even though the cost is insane), but even finding one with unlimited miles is surprisingly challenging.
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Old 3 Aug 2021
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Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
Plus, they are closed for the rest of August.

.
This is the month where whole Italy is going on vacation. Many tourists of France and Germany will also be there. Means Italy will be from Liguira and Emilia-Romagna on to south overcrowed!

Available campgrounds, hotels, restaurants and beaches will be full of people and due to corona rules these cannot offer same capacities as usual.

Keep that in mind while your are planning!
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Old 3 Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
It's seeming like renting might be the most reasonable option (even though the cost is insane), but even finding one with unlimited miles is surprisingly challenging.
I don't find it very surprising that it is hard to find one with unlimited mileage--let's face it, most people rent Vespas to bop around town for a day, week, or month rather than go on long-distance journeys. Perhaps you could find a place that would at least agree to use your average mileage over the rental period than strictly per month (ie, so that if you basically stayed in one place for a month, your "mileage" for the next month could be almost double.

Also, have you considered a small motorcycle? If you plan to ride long distances this might be better.
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Old 3 Aug 2021
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Originally Posted by dooby View Post
There is plenty of vespa's in Italy, and why would Giuseppe be interested to import the vespa to Italy if he has choice to buy them locally?
It's a good point. I guess I'd figured that since a rental could cost a couple thousand Euro, I could sell the one I rode at enough of a discount that someone would want it. It seems Italy is a particularly difficult country to buy a vehicle in (even for locals).

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter View Post
Also, have you considered a small motorcycle? If you plan to ride long distances this might be better.
Considering that all of my riding experience is with hand brakes and a CVT, it makes sense to find a similar vehicle overseas. Getting accustomed to shifting and using a foot brake might be a lot when also learning new traffic customs.
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Old 3 Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
It's a good point. I guess I'd figured that since a rental could cost a couple thousand Euro, I could sell the one I rode at enough of a discount that someone would want it. It seems Italy is a particularly difficult country to buy a vehicle in (even for locals).



Considering that all of my riding experience is with hand brakes and a CVT, it makes sense to find a similar vehicle overseas. Getting accustomed to shifting and using a foot brake might be a lot when also learning new traffic customs.
At the risk of being struck by lightning , how did you come up with conclusion that in Italy it is particularly difficult to buy a vehicle even for locals?

My view (correct me if I am wrong please) is that you are floating with your ideas and do not want to put them on a paper and provide calculations that will bring you to the solution or conclusion that you don't have a solution.

BR
Dooby
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  #10  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
If I'm reading this right, a vehicle with more than 6000km is considered used in Europe.

Does that mean I can buy a brand new Vespa in Germany with export plates (skipping VAT), ride it for 6000km, and then sell it to someone in Italy who won't have to pay VAT because it's now used?
Answer is no.
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  #11  
Old 3 Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnow View Post
…I wonder if I could buy a used Vespa in Germany, get export plates, and easily sell it in Italy.

I also wonder if there are closer countries with export plates, e.g. Switzerland.
There is plenty of vespa's in Italy, and why would Giuseppe be interested to import the vespa to Italy if he has choice to buy them locally?

So logical answer is no.

Switzerland is outside EU (customs).

BR
Dooby
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