Hi folks

We are planning a 4x4 overland trip via West Africa starting 2010. We are planning to do a shake down run Sept 09 in Germany. Has anyone got any recommendations on some more "off road" areas we could explore for a few days. We are planning to head to the Bavaria / Munchen area..... and have a cheeky day at the Oktoberfest

Thanks

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Hello,
I don't know either the area around Munich or how well aquainted you are with Germany, so I'm meaning no offense and I might be wrong when I tell you: Forget about exploring offroad for a few days in Germany.

For once going off the road in Germany is illegal (for the most part). Of course you're allowed to drive around on most private grounds as much as you like, but that's just privat areas, not public ground.

And then even most areas in Bavaria are too densly populated or in use (like farm land) to break that rule for any amount of time without running into the law at some point. Depending on the circumstances and the floor damage you might be able to talk your way out of it (or not).

What might be possible (again: I'm not from bavaria) is to find a suitable location somewhere (just google for something like '4x4 offroad training' and the specific area). So just go and explore the alps on public roads and the occasional gravel paths (these are only about 20€ if you get caught - at least here in Hessia) and then go and visit a special offroad park for the hardcore stuff.

Some friendly advice!
Have fun!
buebo

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Buebo

Thanks for the info - most welcome.

Nick

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Langebaan Sunset - Africa Overland
http://langebaan-sunset.blogspot.co.za/

buebo is right - with a lot of searching you may find a few kilometers of legal gravel roads in good condition, but that'll be about it. Germany is indeed rather densely populated, and neither local farmers nor forest rangers will let you get away with off-roading around on their ground. There are 4x4 training grounds and the like for which you pay an entry fee, and you may be able to negotiate some off-roading with the person who owns the land, but otherwise I really wouldn't recommend it.

I recently read about a tank driving leisure thing somewhere near Berlin, where you can go about in some historic soviet tanks, maybe for a small fee they'll let you use their ground.

Not really off-road, but very pretty in the summer and plenty of legal gravel roads are to be found in Scandinavia, so that may be a better option.

Forget it. You might as well think of off-roading through Cornwall

Enjoy the Octoberfest and then carry on either to the Balcan countries or central Italy. In Italy (Tuscany, Abruzzo mts etc) you will find dirt roads, usually well kept, but beautiful landscape.
The further south you travel down the Balcans you are bound to find dirt roads in all ranges of quality, the most enjoyable IMO in Albania. In this case, if your time is limited, take the ferry from Venice to Igoumenitsa and enter Albania from the south. Then stick to the eastern parts. Very mountainous.

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I live in Munich and have to confirm what has been said before - forget about offroading in Germany. Also, when you're trying to come to Munich during Oktoberfest make sure to make reservations because most hotel rooms are booked out months in advanced, and are also approx. four times as expensive as they are during the rest of the year (I'm talking about 200€ per night for a room that would usually cost you ~50€/night).

Wild camping and sleeping in the car is impossible, since there's tons of police around during Oktoberfest that will keep you from doing that (for some reason it's illegal in Germany to sleep in your own car on public space, has to do with wild camping and such).

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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!"

The nearest decent legal offroad trails to Munich that I can think of are in the Dolomites around the Cortina / Pieve di Cadore area, about 300km south of Munich.

We were there last week on big trail bikes, many of the trails are used by 4X4's although a few were too narrow.

Can't post a link to the ride report from work but search out the 2009 European Advrider Rally in the Ride Reports forum on Adventure Rider Motorcycle Forum Plenty of pics so that you can judge if the terrain is what you're after.

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all the Germans and Austrians come to Romania to off road with 4x4. virtually no restriction and plenty of off road tour operators and guides. I drive my 4x4 none stop from the channel obviously shared driving and takes no more than 28 hrs to Brasov which is central Romania. okay so it takes an extra day but get caught in those countries and you have a big problem.
good news is the mechanics here are great and cheap and can repair virtually anything. the country has a big 4x4 culture so parts are easy to find. there is a center in the north run by a great guy he uses v8 range rovers and has a big lodge to stay and my friend is an off road enduro guide so your not confined to one area you just have to decide how hard core you want it.
if you are interested i can check and find the date of some off road completions and the rally raids they have here why not try one of them. if your going to Africa then Romania is a walk in the park for you.
regards.
mike

Hi Nick and Vicki,
Just doing my sad geezer bit and sniffing about the forums at a time when I would be travelling before my daughter came along (wouldn't do without her though!) and I spotted your thread. I love Germany, my girlfriend is German and my daughter was born there, I'll probably be living there within a year but the other replies you've got are spot on. Germany is probably the most regulated and in some ways opressive country in Europe. It is even illegal to name a child using a name that does not clearly define the gender of the child. The farmers don't normally put up fences and as long as you walk around the crops they don't mind you crossing their land. The problem with doing it in a motorised vehicle two or four wheels is that they will go 'Legal' very quickly. There are often roadsigns which basically prohibit any kind of engined vehicle unless you live locally, there are often tarmac roads to cafes on top of mountains twice the hieght of Snowdon and they like visitors to the obligatory souvo shop but even 'wild camping' is illegal and that's without the added offence of a vehicle. It should not suprise you that a very high percentage of serious long distance travellers that travellers meet are German, they have to leave Germany rather than risk getting booked for being spontaneous.If you see a bike with German plates just ask them. The only people who regularly get away with wild camping in Germany are people out locally for a saturday night piss up in an area where they have detailed local knowledge and are doing it so they can make a lot of noise after 2200Hrs without being booked for it. Or for poeple who want to hang up washing on a sunday. Apart from that and the odd berserk gunman it really is a great place so don't let me put you off visiting, just know what rules you can't ignore.
Based on where you intend to go in 2010 I would suggest you consider a shakedown to Las Bardenas Reales in Northern Spain. It is partly a Nature Conservation Area but also has an air force base and plenty of opportunities to practice off road driving, it is also a desert and I would have thought more suited to a practice for Africa. I have been there on a bike and rode across the desert a few years ago but as far as I know it is still ok so long as you don't break the rules in the protected area. You then have the option to go down the middle of Spain to the hot bits and mountains although it gets very hot in the Bardenas believe me !

Where would we be if there were no rules-France.
Where would we be if there were rules and everybody ignored them-Spain.
Where would we be if there were too many rules-Germany.
What about Italy-Yeah what about Italy.

Have fun
Roy

Hilarious!
But so true...

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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!"

Steve,

sadly enough this is changing quickly. I've just returned from a trip around the Dolomites and did some off-roading up the Marchinkele (2,500m) near Innichen/Toblach in north-eastern Italy (the region of Alto Adige) and found that all dirt roads into the Alps have been closed for public traffic. This must have been done some time this year, because the roads where still open last Fall. The same applies for the western regions. The Assietta trail between Susa and Sestriere east of Torino, a magnificent old military road, has also been closed a short time ago. I'm afraid the great Ligurian trail beginning at the Paso di Tende is probably closed in the meantime as well....

Hans

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Only when we pause to wonder
do we go beyond the limits of our little lives.
(Rod McKuen)