Hi all,

I have ridden from Australia on a F650GS (the central Asia - Iran route) and I am in Berlin at the moment. I am looking for some advice from locals or those who have ridden here in winter.

I am planning to go from Berlin to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris and finish my trip in London before Christmas. I am concerned about the road surfaces given the weather up to now, and what is predicted. I´m trying to decide whether to continue the ride or put the bike on a train or van and take the easy way to the UK.

What do you think about city or highway riding now and over the next few weeks? Issues I have in mind:

- Road surface!! - Ice on main roads, black ice etc. - will they be cleared sufficient for 2 wheels
- Chains vs studs
- Tire choice - currently Tourance
- Dangers of other drivers

Thoughts please??

Thanks
Rehan

If you are planning to use motorways only then you'll have no problem, roads up there are very well kept, especially on the french side. Unless you are caught in a snow storm you'll do fine, the worst part will be the cold temperatures.
Try to ride the most you can around midday, so you can take advantage of the warmest part of the day

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Eirinn - Yamaha XV1600 "Etoile Routière"
Tre uisge 's tre thèine a dh'ionnsaigh na reultan

I don't entirely agree with Eirinn, given that in the past 2 weeks alone most of Western europe has had 20-50 cm of snow paralysing Paris, Berlin, Geneva, London. Yes a snow storm but the motorways, autoroutes, autobahns were all serverely impacted, not to mention airports!

I ride with tourances but I am very careful to check the weather conditions. If you stick to main roads (avoiding mountains) and the weather is clear and dry you can ride BUT black ice is a problem. If if freezes overnight then best not ride the next morning unless you are prepared with spikes or chains (which as Mandarax say are forbidden in most of mainland Europe!). There are some 'winter' style tyres that are much better than Tourances for snow, but on Ice, you're pretty much up shit creek!

The key is to keep a very close eye on the forecasts and road conditions. You're local news station is your best friend.

You can also check FIA clubs in your country for road conditions and risk or black ice.

Btw where are you staying in Berlin, I'm going to be there this weekend, fancy a ?

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

Current german road conditions from ADAC (only in German):
Aktuelle Verkehrslage

BTW without a word of german I managed to navigate to the page with webcams... pretty handy. Click here for the link. Then enter the Auto route number and tick all the boxes... the map should display webcam spots, click on the symbol in the map to see the latest images.

You can get the full list of FIA clubs in europe here.

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

my advice...

hire a van from SIXT as one way rent and do the rest of your journey via motorway.
will cost you some 280,-Euros plus the diesel on a day in the middle of the week, weekends are more expensive.

Or... well try to find a HGV fright company and ask if you are welcome to entertain the driver while your bike is resting on the back and you are in the cap.
Some of them don't mind and are happy to squeeze your bike in for a small tip.
There would be a lot of this companies big and small in Berlin

did the journey on country roads from Berlin to Cologne and back again for a few times in summer and autumn... well that's about 600km and is a ride for about 12 to 14 hours if you know the way... up and down over high ground, which would be full of ice and snow right now.

well yeah on the motorways it's may less time consuming, realistic talking about 7 to 10 hours (about 600km) to ride depending on the traffic from Berlin to Cologne, but watching the news... there is ice, and long HGV congestions jams in Germany, with blockages for hours, wouldn't like to be there at all... even if the authorities are using a lot of salt to cope with it... your bike would not like it anyway.
And if that's not enough... well always remember the German motorways are a battle ground of fast and irrespective drivers compensating there ego and small willy in there high ranking status symbolising cars...

anyway... if you may get near Duesseldorf/Wuppertal along the way (not far away from the A3 and A46), I can offer you for free: a warm bed, a few days rest, workshop, dry place for your bike and of course chug on the country side... let me know and send me a PM...

you can find the place here = N51.14.887 E7.01.048 about 300km before Amsterdam and about 560km from Berlin, sort of right on you way...

by the way where I live it's about 140m above sea level here in Wuppertal and there is 10 to 20cm snow all around, with 5cm thick ice patches on the roads, only +2 at lunch time... but after daylight is gone... well it's gona be ice and sliding cars on the roads again.
Been down to the post office in the morning on my bike, just riding like it has been raining.. but the salt... well I had to wash my bike right after I came home.

may see you... you are welcome to stay and make further plans from here if you want...
spooky

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The trouble is that he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish.

Yep, the salt they use to de-ice the roads is really bad for bikes. I once wasted a chain in almost no time, that especially seems to hate salt! But bikes in general do not have the same level of corrosion prevention as cars do, so all visible parts are in danger of at least losing their shine. Would be wise to wash the bike thoroughly after each day.. probably won´t happen during a trip, though!

Once rode down from north Germany to Spain in mid-November, and then came back early February. Both times it was do-able, no snow or ice on low-lying areas (in the daytime at least)... but very, very cold, foggy, and miserable. Looking at the news, I wouldn´t even try that right now, it does look pretty wintry also in Central Europe (though not like in Helsinki, we´ve got around half a meter of the white stuff here!!)

Winter over there doesnt usually last very long, but for the moment, I´d stay somewhere warm, and follow the forecasts. If you absolutely must ride, then try to do that only in the daytime, even though it is a bit short. Darkness & ice on a bike is a very scary combination!

+1

and that's an understatement!

+1 again

and another understatement! With ice, coming off in inevitable on a bike (unless you have a side car attached :-)


... it's getting close the Beer O'clock

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

Do yourself a favor an take the train or ship the bike otherwise. It's not worth the risk and the effort.

I'm from northern Germany and when I moved to the south (where I live now) I commuted the 700km once or twice a month by bike. All year long. I'm really, really grateful I don't have to do this any more.

Even if you're fine riding along in temperatures around the freezing point take into account the windchill factor and how fast you cool out. If you cool out, you're error prone.

Although one can usually filter through the lanes if traffic comes to a hold, I wouldn't try this on ice-slippery roads. You're in serious trouble if the Autobahn you're on gets closed down and you are forced to stay for the night (that happened this week, again).

Studs (called spikes in Germany) are not allowed in Germany and most other central european counties, I never saw a bike with chains. Other then the one driving the rear wheel, that is.

Depending on your schedule it might even be worth considering to take cheap plane rides to get to the major cities you want to see and come back to Berlin later and reclaim the bike.

Regards,
Hans

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Seen whilst travelling - Fernwehstammtisch Karlsruhe - Relief action Togo Togoville e.V.

Hi,

In germany there is a new low scince thsi winter saying you have to have tires with the M+S Symbol for Mud and Snow lie the TKC80 if there is ice or snow on the road.

The highways are very bouring so i would prefere to take the natiola rouds. With them you also donw have to pay toll in france, swiss and spain.

Travel save, Tobi

yes, the new law for winter tyres = M+S is a minimum requirement for cars, I'm not to sure if it will apply for bikes too.... often this new laws do not apply to bikes regarding it's "considerable lesser" appearance on the road, just like the emission laws don't apply for bikes that strict, the main target about this laws are cars. Some idiot on TV even mention to introduce colour coded tyres as they are available now... like orange tyres for summer and black for winter use to allow the police for easy identifications...

Knobblies, would be OK on bikes

well... just a suggestion to Rehan's first enquiry....

by now we all know, and meanwhile found out that it may can be a tricky decision for him to make a good and bearable judgement about the weather, road conditions and distance he want to be able to cover over the next two weeks before xmas in unknown territory.. "Rehan asked for some hints"...

so... as far I understand... Rehan want or may even need to go from Berlin to Amsterdam, Brussel, Paris and London.... to discover what Europe is like...
how about providing him some more targeting advice and help to do this in this unexpected winter chaos... rather than confusing the means of how to travel ?

now Rehan:
I can provide you a stepping stone for free commendation for a few days to be able for to sit out bad weather, having a rest, space to work on your bike if needed and what else, I live basicaly right on that axial line you would come by, I can provide essential turn off and location GPS waypoints for most of this journey (over country roads and motorways, crossroads, ports and so on, which I did collect and ridden my self for countless times over the last 10 years) that may help you to make effective use of the short daytime and not wasting to much time to find a right way, got a good idea of the geographic situation too.

and as I see there is "atgxt660 / Richard" from the Netherlands is happy to help you out too... sound grate to me...

question:
is there any one else who like to voluntary on this matter ?

spooky

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The trouble is that he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish.

Have been following this thread with interest. I would offer Berlin-London-en-route help, but as I'm 200 miles north of The Smoke (slang for London, if you're not from these parts) it wouldn't help. Having said that, if you're touring the UK, look me up if you're passing West Yorkshire.

Have you tried contacting HU Communities (link in menu bar on left)? The people there like to meet/help other travellers.

cheers
Chris

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TBS.com

Hello, I am in Augsburg right now, trying to cross Bavaria and Austria this week on my way to Italy. From what I saw so far in Germany, there is no problem with drivers, the Germans are pretty alert drivers. You can use the A motorways and B roads in normal conditions (until -10 degrees, on drizzle, rain, light snow) with no problem. If you have to go right now (the next couple of days will be pretty awful), just dress well, stop often, avoid sudden maneuvers and you'll be fine.

Ride on!

Dorin

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boldly going nowhere!