anybody thinking of attacking the swiss alps next summer might be interested in this

the speeding fines for switzerland:

( I dont know which other countries have an agreement with switzerland enabling foreign plates to be prosecuted for speeding) you'll notice that over a certain speed, the fine becomes proportionnal to your net annual income...

My French isn't too good but even I can see that's a bit harsh.

25mph over the limit on a motorway gets you a fine equal to 20% of your yearly income or minimum of 1000 euro's plus 3 years in prison? Is this right?

I'd read a few scare stories about Swiss traffic cops on here last year. Am glad I avoided the place now.

Three years in clink seems a bit harsh, it's actually three days for 41-45kph over. Still bad enough though. Mind you, according to the table it's €40 on a rural road for 0kph over ie doing the speed limit!

Its not quite as harsh as it seems...
The figures should be in Swiss Francs and thats 1.5 to the Euro

John

__________________
Nostradamus Ate My Hamster

GBP512 fine (or 20% of your net MONTHLY income - ie after deductions), and 3 days in the pokey. For doing over 100mph on the motorway. And the speeds are quoted after reduction by a 6km/h leeway. afaik Switzerland like many other countries usually quotes slaaries as a monthly value, not annual salary as in the UK, and some countries get 13 or 14 monthly salaries, I'm not sure about CH, I think they generally pay 13.

In the UK you'd get 6 points or or disqualification for between 14 and 56 days (+ increased insurance premium), a court summons and a penalty of up to GBP 2,500.

__________________
Tim
www.alpineroads.com

Simple solution....stick to the limits and enjoy the scenery!

More worthy of note maybe(not speed related) is check your silencers are E-marked.On our recent trip to Romania we were pulled up 3 times in Switzerland(once on the way out,the others on the return) and every time the plod insisted on seeing the E markings on our cans.Angharad's were easy to see being on the end of the cans but mine were on the side facing outwards so i had to remove the R/H case to show them every time.I asked what happens if you don't have the E marking and was told by 2 of the officers that the bike gets taken away and SCRAPPED, and you get a heavy fine on top.I hadn't heard of this before but an Austrian guy on a Harley near the top of the Grimselpass said it was a new law this spring.

__________________
Just going for a short ride on my bike....

Some background and interpretive information for all, based on having lived in Switzerland for the past 10 years:

1) I have no idea if the French document above is official or not.

2) As noted in the French text, the table lists the fines for speeds calculated after having allowed for the 6 km/h grace that is applied at all times. In other words, if you are doing 5 km/h over a speed limit, no ticket is even issued. If you are doing 7 km/h over a speed limit, then you would apply the penalty shown for "1 km/h over limit".

3) The Swiss are generally very intelligent when it comes to speed enforcement. The vast majority of speed enforcement is accomplished by cameras that are installed within villages. It is very common to see a pictograph of a camera prior to the camera itself... in other words, the entire object of the exercise is to get the traffic to slow down, not to use the camera as a fund-raising device.

4) I have never seen a Swiss speed camera positioned in such as way that could be considered to be a 'speed trap' - in other words, at the bottom of a hill, or out in the middle of no-where. The cameras are generally located in places where an average, reasonable adult would agree that speed needs to be controlled for safety reasons. In practice, this means in villages, either just before entry into the main pedestrian area, or on a stretch of long straight wide road that is within a village but proximate to schools, pedestrian areas, stuff like that. In other words, if you use your common sense and ride "politely" in the villages, your odds of getting a ticket are pretty low.

5) In 10 years, I have only once seen real live policemen operating a radar gun at the side of the road. This was at the exit from a rather long tunnel on the main autobahn running between Zürich and Bern. Speed limits in tunnels are almost always lower than on the roads leading into and out of the tunnel. At this particular tunnel, it was common for drivers to accelerate up to autobahn speed (about 130 or so) prior to exiting the tunnel. Because the tunnel had a curved exit, the police thought this posed a safety hazard, and they set up a highly conspicuous manned radar monitoring position about 200 meters past the end of the tunnel, monitoring the speed of the drivers as they exited the tunnel. After a week of this, the whole community got the message, and I have never seen the police there since.

6) The real risk to a visitor (a tourist) is getting nailed by a speed camera that is installed on an arterial road within a city. Ironically, this is due to the high quality and excellent design of the arterial roads. You may find yourself driving on a perfectly smooth road, with excellent sightlines, a gorgeous piece of engineering work that seems to invite you to safely travel at 80 km/h. But, the speed is clearly posted - with many signs - as 50 km/h, for quite legitimate reasons that might not be apparent to a visitor at first glance (e.g. 'arterial' design of road shortly ends and road continues as a much smaller roadway, or, there is a school nearby, or merging traffic, etc.). To mitigate this risk, use of a GPSR with an up to date speed camera database is very helpful.

Switzerland is a 'direct democracy' and local citizens will not put up with speed cameras that are installed simply to collect money. In fact, if a camera is taking too many photos, something is deemed to be wrong - either there are not enough speed limit signs, or the roadway needs to be redesigned, or the camera will be relocated closer to where the area of concern is (meaning, further up the road). But, this is little comfort to a first-time visitor who may be setting their speed according to 'road conditions' on the wonderfully maintained Swiss roads, rather than paying attention to the city or village speed limits. So, pay attention to the speed signs! They are generally set according to intelligent engineering criteria, not by some little old lady on town council who decided she wanted a 10 km/h limit past the local cemetery so as not to disturb the occupants.

7) It is exceedingly rare to find speed cameras on non-urban sections of highways and motorways. But, it is common to find a speed camera at the entrance to a slip road at an expressway interchange. In such a case, the object to to ensure that the traffic enters the slip road from the main motorway at a lower speed. These will only be installed at locations where there has been a problem with accidents that has been caused by high speeds. You will always be given ample notification, by many signs, of the lower speed limit that applies when you enter the ramp or slip road.

8) It is common to see speed cameras set up just after a very clearly marked reduction in the speed limit on motorways. For example, prior to entering a tunnel, or prior to entering an area with a large interchange, you will see many speed limit signs telling you to slow down to (for example) 80 km/h from the previously posted 120 km/h. Then, just prior to the tunnel entrance, or 300 meters after the end of the huge flurry of signs telling you of the speed limit reduction, there will be a speed camera. If you get nailed by one of those, it's your own fault for not following the rules.

9) I have never, ever seen any form of speed enforcement out in the mountain passes, outside of villages. Motorcycle riding is a popular sport in Switzerland, and the police recognize that it is a sport. The guiding principle is that you must respect speed limits in villages. If you do this, in exchange, you will not be bothered by a nanny-state approach to speed enforcement out in the rural areas (woods, forests, uninhabited areas).

thanks for that insight Paneuropean, it's always worth asking the "Locals" for the real info!

I have. Once. On the north ramp of the St. Gottard about halfway between Hospental and the Passhohe.

Other than that, you paint a fairly accurate picture of the situation. In Switzerland, I just slow down a bit and enjoy the scenery.

That being said - one of the fastest riders that I've observed was a Swiss motor cop on the Julier - in the rain. Fast as hell and absolutely smooth.

__________________
Michael Jordan
Sterling, Virginia
USofA

Hi Michael:

Ah, what you saw was a camera in the context I mentioned in item 7) above. That camera was put there because there have been a higher than normal amount of speed related accidents on that particular ramp. So, the authorities will put up a camera, and that slows everyone down.

What is interesting about Swiss speed cameras on ramps is that the camera is always at the beginning of the ramp, in other words, at the entrance to the ramp. The authorities don't care what speed you achieve on the ramp or exiting the ramp - their only objective is to ensure that everyone enters the ramp at the design speed limit.

Ramp cameras are uncommon, because they are only put up in response to higher than normal numbers of accidents. They generally won't have a warning sign (a picture of a camera) ahead of them, because the Swiss try and keep motorways pretty sterile so far as distractions from signs are concerned.

The presence of the occasional ramp camera is a good justification for having a GPS with an up to date camera database in it.

Hi, boy are you asking a lot! I'd suggest amid the thousands of other possible heavenly spots to visit to go to: Lauterbrunnen. Take a train from Interlaken to Lauterbrunnen then loiter a bit in the valley gazing up at the scenery. You MUST ensure it is not cloudy though!!! There is a narrow guage railway up via Wengen and Kleine Scheidegg where you can stop for a coffee and cake, then reboard for the trip through the tunnel through the Eiger north face no less. The top station is outside amid ice between the peaks of the Eiger and Jungfraujoch. You'll need glacier goggles and sunscreen but the experience is worth it. Use google earth of course but also web search, Swiss Tourism, Lauterbrunnen and Berner Oberland. Linzi

I took a photo at the bottom of one of the Passes. It was of a sign with a picture of a Ducati 999 on full tilt, with the words: rimani in sella!
Can some one translate please?
Cheers, Boot.

Hello PanEuropean,

one question, when did you leave Switzerland ? And in which part of Switzerland you were resident ?

What you describe is not really what one (me) can see/perceive on a day to day basis, at least here in Suisse Romande (things might be a little bit different in German Swiss, though I doubt about it).

I have been living here in Suisse Romande for one and a half year, and the general perception, even among (angry) Swiss people, is this one: there might have been good reasons at the beginning for radars deployment, but now, all if not most of new radar deployments are made to generate income for the government. Actually, the situation changed a lot since late 2006 where it all started (as far as I could track back).

Official text ("recommendation") can be found here in PDF :

http://www.ksbs-caps.ch/docs_empf/em...ngen_gsw_f.pdf


Well, things have just gotten worst recently with the new generation of laser radars :

http://www.bluewin.ch/fr/index.php/1..._radars_fixes/

The margin is now lowered to 3 km/h (instead of 5 previously) with those high tech radars (this implies that they are supposed to be more precise or let's say, less prone to an error).

Your observations might be true in the past and/or in some cantons, but one example says it all : the "infamous" Lausanne-Geneva highway, 65 kms, one radar every 5 kms or so




On this highway, radars have created new ways of driving as well as bad habits (same in France) : people now pay attention to their speedmeter which they look at constantly, instead of caring for the road and its environment, security distances are reduced, overtaking are less secure, anxiety for the driver not in the knowledge of radars positioning while being pushed by locals who driver faster than allowed between two spots of radars etc.

Well, early 2007, the authorities have declared illegal the use of GPS with radar alerting capabilities (even through the use of POI), thus classifying those GPS in the same category of illegal devices such as Inforad and radar detectors.

Official texts:
http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSB...ments/7032.pdf
RS 741.01 Art. 57b (Loi fédérale sur la circulation routière)

See manufacturer TomTom statement about this new regulation:

http://www.tomtom.com/news/category....&selector=true

Autumn 2008, the authorities have even declared illegal the radio stations that were broadcasting info on mobile radar and police control.


Yes, the point is, stick to the limit, but also pay attention to others when riding around here, but do come and ride around here, because, after all Switzerland is such a nice country with pretty roads and landscapes.

Even though, you might be interested in this Speed Camera map in Europe:

http://www.scdb.info/fr/software-karte/

On a final touch, as my Swiss friend in Geneva said to me :

It all started because of you, french people, with the massive radar deployments in 2005 in France. Swiss people have quickly learned the benefit they could gain from copying what you did, and even more, putting this policy to its perfection