Hello Simon,

Thanks for the info on Andorra mate, must admit i was suprised to read that you described it as an incredible dump!!, iv'e never been so i personally couldn't comment on the place, think i'll pay a visit on my route east anyway but not that bothered either way about staying. I set sail to France on the 1st of July via Plymouth/Roscoff ferry, intend on travelling south down the west side of France for 3 days before heading over the border to Vielha to stay for the weekend, the following weekend me and the missis are meeting up with some friends forra few days near Perpignan, still not sure where to stay/visit on the trip eastwards from Vielha to South/East France yet so any recommendations would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Keith.

I spent a week there nearly 40 years ago and it was fine, as a new experience.
I've been back once or twice more recently and I agree that it is not up to much nowadays; very over-rated.
Now, it is over developed and has sold out to the tax exiles who frequent the place - that means that the population is transient. I checked it out online about a year ago and the population has reduced by about 8% over the last few years - my guess is that the youngsters are leaving to find work while the tax exiles move in and cause increasing property prices. Much like the national parks of the UK!


But, you can get through there in little more than an hour or two (it is a postage stamp sized country) so there is no need to stay there overnight.

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Dave

Hi Keith,

Dave's quite right to justify his opinion with details - and his analysis is spot on! - and I should have done so too.

The reason I call it a 'dump' is that most of the country is along the valley of the Gran Valira river with some settlements in the higher tributary valleys.

The urbanisation along the Gran Valira is more or less continuous from the snow line - at about 2,200 metres - right down to the frontier with Spain. Most of this dates from the sixties and seventies when the architecture is, well ¡, it's difficult to be polite about the architecture so I won't bother!

In recent years a by-pass road had been built - still in the building - that runs along the 'backs' and has the addition of trading estate type developments. This by-pass it treated as a highway but is in fact totally urban and is truly horrible to ride - not least because Andorran drivers are maniacs (more on this below)!

Although the centre of the capital, Andorra la Vella, has been redeveloped and pedestrianised all this means is a shopping mall look with exactly the same stores that you get in any city pretty much all around the world! The rest of the urban zones are seriously blighted by the economic factors the Dave mentioned - there are loads of closed premises as, including bike shops, as Internet shopping has taken a massive toll on high street commerce. The new by-pass has added to this demise as dozens of small filling stations and tyre shops have closed in the face of new outlets there and in the trading estates. So apart from the centre of Andorra la Vella the whole place has a run down and depressing feel to it.

In contrast the high valley villages, where the rich folk live, are indeed pretty in a picture post card way but on closer inspection what you have is large de-luxe housing developments dressed up with a bit of cut stone and wooden barge board to look 'authentic' - Ordino is a good example of this. But to get to these valleys you a) have to ride through the lower valley towns, and b) they are a long way away from the valley, so riding through andorra then takes al long time.

Two more points - before I tell you that I go to Andorra quite often for the shopping!

Andorran drivers: as Dave says the demographic of the country are sad: lots of stinking rich tax exiles - all of whom I've heard of hate the place! - who drive f**k-off cars at maniacal speed, both in Andorra and beyond as they take day excursions to relive their boredom but have to 'sleep' in the country for X nights per year. The cross border control driving offences is also weak - so when in Spain if you see an Andorran car - take cover! *

On the other hand the folks who work in the shops, restaurants and as domestic helps are often seriously poor, and mostly migrants, mainly from Portugal or now Eastern europe and former soviet states, and drive old bangers that look held together with gaffer tape - to judge from all this I guess neither the driving nor vehicle tests in Andorra are what you'd expect anywhere else in Europe!

Access: Dave says, rightly, that Andorra is a postage stamp sized country. But to get there you are committed to rotten roads, especially from France, where the access is from the N20 via Foix and Axe-les-Thermes, while on the Spanish side it's not only a futile detour from the N260 at La Seu d'Urgell but you are more or less compelled to take the N260 there. Moreover, the section of the N260 road is grotty from La Seu to Puigcerda and you exclude yourself from some really lovely alternatives further south.

The good news? Well, I do go there quite often by car but that's because it's only an hour's drive away. If I get there with an empty tank I get a free day out - not much more. And since Spain's VAT is now 21% (and rising!) I use it to get my BMW serviced and my car serviced and shod - bike tyres are a dead loss for Adventure tyres, especially for my bike with it's unusual wheel size for off road tyres.

Shopping wise there more choice for me than in Spain for riding clobber, which I won't but on-line, and there are some great bargains if you go on spec. Booze and fags: well I don't smoke nor drink spirits so there's nothing in it - the French shop in Spain as often as going to Andorra; the Val d'Aran is a really popular destination for this as fuel, fags and booze are all much cheaper for them and they don't have to cross onto the southern side of the mountains. Furthermore - on both French and Spanish border with Andorra, which isn't in the EU remember, every single car is stopped and has at least a cursory inspection, so the delays can be huge! I've never been stopped in my bike even with luggage but you can only filter through the traffic up to a point and then you boil!

Phew - maybe I should have stuck to saying it's just a dump!

Keith, your route from Vielha to Perpignan is more positive! Tell me what accommodation you're looking for and what you like, e.g. remote villages, historic towns . . . and how much time you have for the ride as there's a quick way and a very slow way - no prizes for which way I'd choose

Regs

Simon

* this is less of a joke than it seems: recently two cyclists were killed in the seaside resort of Salou. The driver was in an Andorran plated Porch, was drunk and coke up to her eyeballs. But she was also a French resident driving on French license - totally illegal unless it's a rental. But the upshot is that she got released on bail - maximum €15,000 - and promptly flitted the country, never to be seen again no doubt and the cyclists' families will get nothing!

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Cheers Dave and Simon, thanks for taking time to reply folks, iv'e made my mind up to give Andorra a miss now!!, iv'e got 3 days to get from Vielha to Perpignan so the scenic long way round route sounds right up my street mate, hope the roads in the Vielha area haven't been too battered in the recent floods.

Cheers.

Keith.

Hi Keith, not at all.

The damage in the Vall d'Aran was mind blowing - but amazingly the road was opened within 48 hours albeit very crude!

Imatges aèries dels efectes dels desbordaments - Televisió de Catalunya

You could get from the Vall d'aran to Perpignan in a day so if I had three I'd think about basing myself some where and exploring from there.

One idea is that I have left a half dozen copies of my HISS rally guidebook behind the bar where the rally took place at Camping Collegats, near La Pobla de Segur.

There are over 400 kms or trails that ling together into long itineraries, in two four-day HISS rallies no-one has come near finishing them all!

Here's a taster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qfNNb2qOOo

I'm selling them for just €30 which is just a bit more than they cost to print, plus a sub to the camp site plus a or two for me and Mrs S

Route-wise. From Vielha: Sort - Tremp - Coll de Nargó - Port del Compte - Tuixent - Gosol - La Pobla de Lillet - Castellar d'en Hug - Puigcerda/Bourg-Madame (that's the French border) - Villefranche-de-Conflent - Prades.

From Prades on you're close to the metropolis of Perpignan so there are lots of different ways to exactly where your holiday villa is waiting for you - with a nice cup of tea after that ride!

Regs

Simon

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Hello Simon,

Many thanks again for replies mate, its strictly tarmac for me, the trusty old fazer is not too clever on the loose stuff!! ha ha!, don't think i'm even gunna bother with tent on this trip, got acommadation sorted for most of days already and on the days we haven't just gunna find somewhere to stay on route, thanks for the route you posted, think i'll give that one a go.

Cheers.

Keith.

Hi,

Ribes de Freser is a good place to have in mind for accommodation - it's just off my route but none the worse for that. You can also use it as a base to explore the lovely Garrtoxa region just further east around Olot

It's a picturesque 'spa' town so there are lots of hotels/hostals and if you fancy a non-bike day there's a rack railway that takes you way up into the mountains. You can also get a train to Barcelona although it's quite a long journey

Regs

Simon

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