So, a question for those more knowledgeable than I:

I'm working on the assumption that the new AT will have quite a bit of electronic jiggery pockery (conjecture, admittedly). Am I also correct in assuming that good quality, non-electronically adjustable suspension is better than ESA or the like? Suspension is, to me, a bit of a dark art, so I'd be interested to know

Define better? In terms of adjustability, if you don't know how to make appropriate adjustments to your suspension then you'd just as well have non adjustable. Ive come across plenty of people who have fiddled with their multi adjustable top of the range suspension and single handedly made their bikes almost unrideable! Ironically the Japanese suspension manufacturers cottoned on to this quite early on, i remember when Suzuki launched the gsxr range with multi-adjustable suspension and everyone thought 'wow thats like race track stuff, awesome'. Except it later transpired that the 21 settings available made little or no difference to the ride. You could argue that it was quite cynical on their part but i would say it was inspired pragmatism. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
ps. Never assume! M

ESA is notoriously unreliable and just an expensive gimmick.

Last year ALL BMW R1200RT's with ESA's were recalled because their shocks could jam on hard with no warning.

Electro-mechanical servo motors and a multitude of sensors are not things I want in my suspension.

They go wrong all the time too. And the ESA costs £2000 to replace. And not many people want to touch them to repair. You need a specialist. BMW themselves will just change a faulty one and offer no repair service.

Being able to change your suspension from hard to soft via a button IS a nice gimmick and I did enjoy it but after a while you forget the button is there and just get on with your riding.

This is another pet hate of mine with all these gimmicks. You spend you the time scrolling through options and settings when you should be looking at the bloody road. Yes, I know they say don't do that but EVERYONE does or you'd be stopping every 30 seconds !

Non ESA shocks have been serving the world well for over 100 years. They work VERY well and can be set up to meet 90% of your realistic riding requirements and most are fully adjustable by hand anyway.

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Non electronic suspension it is then! I do adjust my rear shock but, to be honest, have pretty much left the front alone!

Why not wait & see; the electro-gadgets may be an option or not even offered on the new AT; some are fine and I prefer to have them - FI, ABS and some don't bother me - ride-by-wire throttle. I wouldn't buy electronic suspension mind, not because it is unreliable, but because I think it is a crock of sh1t gimmick that does nothing for my ride.

It is probably unfair to compare Honda equipment to BMW stuff, though; Japanese bikes are generally very reliable.

BTW, Ted, is it just me that finds it ironic that you end up working as a BMW tech given your disdain for the bikes? Not sure what your new business is but if it's anything to do with BMW bikes you might want to start talking them up rather than down....

I don't work on BMWs unless asked to. I don't particularly like working on them as they were designed by accountants rather than engineers and aren't really mechanic friendly. . I just happened to work for a BMW for two years and still do a few days for them when theyre busy.

I don't hate BMWs as much as I portray. Its mostly tongue in cheek. I just think they're very over-priced for their build quality. I actually think they're a very enjoyable bike to ride. When they're not in the workshop

I actually think my lack of rose tinted BMW branded sunglasses makes me a better BMW mechanic. As I don't refuse to believe a 12 month old bike has problems that only a 12 year old should have.

Anyway.. Back to the Africa Twin

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
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As mentioned, we will have to wait and see what Honda offer.
You can be sure the new Africa Twin will offer at least ABS and traction control, probably multiple power settings too as standard.

Elec. suspension is quite new, and as Ted states, still having issues. (this will change) For road bikes elec. suspension is quite a revelation. Some systems self adjust on the fly ... pretty amazing. As Ted states, the menu's on some bikes are ridiculous ... and will kill riders. BMW and Ducati are out front on this, KTM, Yamaha, Honda coming along too.
When I tested the new 1200 Multistrada the menu's were never touched ... I did not even try. Sadly, bike was set up for TRACK ... and it SUCKED on our bumpy back roads. I just could not be bothered to sit down for an hour with the owner's manual to sort out the menu's. (we only got the bike for a day) Screw it.

But once they're set up or rider becomes familiar with them, should be a very nice feature. Remember, many "experts" Poo Poo'd ABS when it first came out.

Many problems for pioneer BMW on their early ABS system. Took about 10 years to sort out. Now? Most bikes have it, no brainer. I don't even think about it on my Triumph Tiger, has never had an issue of any kind. Works a treat ... and has saved me on wet roads a couple times! (just pray the $800 elec. "Accumulator" never fails!)

In another 10 years perhaps elec. suspension will work well too?

But for off road I see it an just another nightmare we don't need. When you really look into the systems (as Ted has described well) you'll shit yourself. VERY COMPLEX! Extra ECU's, Servo motors, Sensors, TONS more wiring. It's all interactive! Quite amazing! Dead battery anyone?

It's true new riders really can screw up suspension. Many bikes come standard with NON adjustable suspension ... and most work well! But serious, experienced riders have their suspension Up graded, replacing shock or adding suspension kits. It takes experience to set it up right. I learned at track days where pro road racer instructor gave me a hand, discussed basic principles. After years of blindly fiddling, finally began to crack the code and make progress. It gets easier the more you do.

All this chitchat about the CRF1000 reminds me how lucky I am to own a XRV750. 20 years old and 55 thousand miles and still the dogs goolies, imvho.




Isle of Skye, Easter 2015




Just north of Applecross, Easter 2015

I am very biased though... (Maybe my bike has had 1 or 2 mods.... )

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Just to add to that, it also MUST be taken to a dealer for calibration, diagnostic, service and update etc.. It's another scam to keep your tied by an umbilical chord to your 'friendly' £90 an hour dealer.

How these adventure bikes are supposed to get around the world without an update or recall or need plugging in every ten minutes to reset a hissy fit, I have no idea.

Last week I was working for BMW. A group of 8 or so riders were on their way from London to Scotland for a weeks riding. 5 of them were on BMW's. 3/5 needed their NEW bikes looking at as they were playing up on their 'Adventure'

One snapped off his fragile aluminium tyre valve for his remote tyre pressure monitor so his tyre was going flat.

One needed his ESA recalibrating because it was making the front of the bike wobble.

One couldn't get his GPS to work an because electronically controlled 12v socket hadn't been put into the dealer for programming so kept shutting down.

These are not 'BMW' specific problems. They're overcomplicated 'gimmick' specific problems.


Everyone else with a £2 pressure guage, standard 'aint broke don't fix it' suspension and a normal 12V socket wired to their battery, was out riding in the glorious Scotish sunshin. Meanwhile, these bozo's were mincing around the dealership with their cappuccinos. Flicking through the touratech catalogue looking for ways to spend thousands of quid to make their bikes even more un-ridable, complicated and unreliable.


Dy'a get my point ??

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well we have drifted off topic a little, but this has raised a couple of relevant points.
Ted said "How these adventure bikes are supposed to get around the world without an update or recall or need plugging in every ten minutes to reset a hissy fit, I have no idea."
I think we know you're not that naive Ted. Factory made ' Adventure' models are the two wheel equivalent to a Range Rover etc. The closest most of them will get to going off road is mounting the pavement outside their favourite coffee joint and the furthest they're likely to travel is a 50 mile radius of their house. This forum is populated by people who do go somewhere, you are not a representative cross section of the ' Adventure' bike riding community.
A lot of the people who buy these bikes love the fact that they've got hot poop electronic up to the minute gadgets, partly because they're into them and partly because it'll impress their friends down said coffee joint. However describing these people as mincing bozo's is a little harsh, especially if your pay packet has been in some part at least, funded by the same people.
Electronically controlled damping is not a gadget or gizmo, it is a viable alternative to mechanical systems and has the potential to provide big improvements to rider comfort and control. However we should all know by now that you don't buy the first generation of anything, because like it or not the manufacturer is using you as the final trial guinea pig! So if you are one of those people and it goes wrong!....Well what did you expect?
These systems are complex and it will be a while before all the bugs are ironed out, but i recall the days when electronic fuel injection first appeared and that was flawed as well, yet now most people think its the best solution.
I don't believe these systems are fitted to tie you to the dealer but the lack of available manufacturers info on how to diagnose and fix them is clearly designed to do this.That however is a separate issue and currently EU courts have allowed this situation to exist. MRF and ERF damping systems are here to stay, so personally i will be studying the systems in detail and working out how they function. Whilst the technical aspects of these 'advances' are fascinating i will continue to follow the philosophy of KISS.(Keep It Simple Stupid ).

Oh I don't know. Anyone who buys touratech can be called a bozo without too much argument.. Bozo is a very light hearted friendly jibe.

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This bozo found a couple of bits of touratwat bling useful (rear carrier, sat nav mount and sidestand foot)....

Most of it is reeeediculous!

This bozo here bought a GPS mount for my Street pilot in 2006. For £90.

To be honest, it worked really well and was a good piece of kit until the cable holder mount fell apart and destroyed the power cable leaving me without a GPS in the middle of Nairobi city centre (ugggggggghhhhhh) It lasted 50,000 miles . For £90 I expected it to last 900,000 miles though.

First and last time I was a Touratech bozo...

Side stand mount.. Shame on you. Piece of steel flat bar welded on works far better, costs 50p and doesn't rattle loose every 10 miles..

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

You've clearly never seen me attempt to weld anything...

I used to use a piece of plywood but kept losing them....