I've been on a Tiger 800 XC (and now an XCx) for 5 years now. They're great machines (I wouldn't have got the second one were they not) and no issues touring two up. Especially the new XCx with its WP suspension.

Sure, it's no Goldwing, but my other half has been comfy enough and we managed Morocco two up and with ludicrous quantities of luggage.

Still glad she's getting her own bike this year, mind you!

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[ Tim | History - NW Italy/French Rivera, Swiss Alps, Morocco | 2016 - Greece > Albania > Macedonia > Kosovo > Montenegro > Bosnia > Slovenia > Austria ]

So just a little feedback from my experiences on my recent trip for the little that its worth. Just got home Saturday. Bike has now over 12k on it. I had a talk to the dealers today to discuss some minor repairs, the servicing etc. Herewith:

1. There is a small oil leak on one of the DCT bolts. Probably only a copper washer needed and doesn't appear to be a major issue at this point
2. I'm not happy with the rear shock. It feels like it's getting progressively worse to me. I weighed my panniers etc when I got home, and I am just over the 195kg maximum load limit set by Honda. I don't mind if it's a case of bottoming the suspensions, but this is not it. As soon as the shock heats up, the bike starts bouncing. 1st it was only over longer distances on corrugated/bad roads. Now it starts when I'm doing 'technical' tracks unloaded. I have the rebound and damping dialed to max, but this does not help. Scott said he will follow up on it, but it sounds like maybe the nitrogen has leaked out of the shock.
3. The DCT oil filter was not available for the 1st service. The filters are still not available from Honda Australia so the service can't be completed until when exactly...
4. The replacement brake lines have arrived that will allow us to do a high front mudguard conversion.
5. My heated grips have arrived and will/can be installed.
6. I saw the photos of the 'high seat' and have ordered one.
7. I have ordered the Force bashplate. I saw a crashed AT after hitting a roo in the Flinder's that was running a B&B- the bashplate succesfully protected the engine casings against damage, but personally, I don't like the look of the bashplate and just think it's too big.
8. I have ordered a set of Holan crashbars (top and bottom).
9. It is possible to make a pre-filter for the bike. The bike sucks it's air from under the headlight. There are two slots you need to blank off to ensure these are the only ports used. I will give Rugged Roads a call later today to discuss this. PBee suggested someone might want to take their bike up to Unifilter to see if they want to do a development deal. If I was closer, I definitely would...
10. Dunlop D908 tires are all on backorder in Australia - will take 6-8 weeks for delivery. I got 9800km on the rear, and I'm sure I would have been able to squeeze out another 1000km, but swapped to the 'standard' Dunlop road tires for my dash back across the Nullarbor (2500km in two days). I was very happy with the performance of the tire on and off-road.

Other than that I'm sure the bike performed faultlessly. The few issues I had was minor (like tightening one or two bolts) or self-inflicted when I crashed/dropped the bike. Herewith some of my findings/comments:

• Fuel consumption did improve over the distance (or maybe I started to 'learn' how to operate the bike more efficiently). Riding the speed limit of 110km/h returned consumption of 15-17km/l. Riding according to the 'tello-meter', I constantly managed over 20km/l with a best of 22km/l. Mixed riding returned figures of 18-20km/l.
• I found using the S1 mode when fully loaded reduced the bike's tendency to lug too much around town.
• Riding off-road, I preferred TC and ABS off completely.
• For dirt riding, I started using Manual mode more than not. The DCT has little quirks like most automatic boxes, and I didn't like the way the bike would shift down when in the middle of a bend/corner as soon as you start accellarating out of it. When riding twisties on bitumen, I used S2 mode mostly. I found sports mode to aggressive for dirt riding for my riding style (i.e. revs tended to be much higher than I liked).
• Even fully loaded, the bike boogies through the corners. I ended up in a 6-Porsche train in the mountains. Although the 911's could have blown me out of the water if they wanted or knew what they were doing, the Cayene couldn't get past me and I had to 'let' him pass

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Squily

Thanks for the comprehensive review of your Africa Twin.
No surprise the OEM shock is fading. Seems common to a lot of bikes ... and seems it's always the rebound circuit that fails first.

Is it a Showa (Honda own Showa) or a KYB shock? Looks like new internal valves and some custom work are called for. I'm sure it will make a big difference once upgraded.

How was the comfort on your long highway rides? Will seat need re-doing?
How is side grip and feed back in the twisty bits when leaned way over under power? Left to Right transitions? Handle OK carrying a load?

Fuel economy seems good. 12K km. is a really good shake down ride. Looks like another strong and reliable Honda.

Mollydog- some answers below:

Is it a Showa (Honda own Showa) or a KYB shock? - To be honest, I don't know. I think I read somewhere it's Showa. Front is Showa.

I'm sure it will make a big difference once upgraded. - I'm trying to get hold of Jonathan at Rugged Roads as I know he and Nitron was working on something. I'll probably go this way, as I am very happy with the shock Nitron built for my Varadero

How was the comfort on your long highway rides? Will seat need re-doing? - I don't like the step seat setup and I always end up 'sliding down'. I find the straight seat more to my liking and hence my changeover to the high seat. Other than that I can't complain, but seating is always a very personal issue with everybody's experiences different


How is side grip and feed back in the twisty bits when leaned way over under power? - Assuming you are referring to tyres - I fitted knobs straight up and had no issues with the handling- managed to scrape the panniers a lot. I am always careful with knobbies on bitumen, so I tend not to be to aggressive on the throttle until the bike starts to come up a bit, but at no time did feel the back step out or do silly things.


Left to Right transitions? No problems, but did have to work the handle bars at times. Bike (to me) handles like a big trailbike and feels a bit jittery when dropping it into the corner, but that could well be the tyres.


Handle OK carrying a load? Yes and no. The handling was getting bad the last 3kkm or so and I found the back starting to bounce as if too soft. Before that- yes.

Fuel economy seems good. - I found the fuel economy acceptable, but not great. My economy was not as good as some of the claims I've read on the internet, but certainly comparable to my Varadero. Fuel range is a problem though.

Looks like another strong and reliable Honda. - I did a smallish comparison review between the RD07, CRF1000 and Varadero about 1/3 through the trip (before the rear shock got really bad). I can't remember if I posted it in HU or not, but there's a copy on this page if anyone is interested.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...50630/page-762


Reading it again, I don't think I'd change any of the scoring, except perhaps to score the rear suspension lower. Also- I forgot to explain the 'low' scoring of the lights when everyone is 'raving' about how good they are- the LED lights lack penetration/distance as they diffuse too quickly compared to halogens. I found it hard to travel at night at speeds over 80km/h on rural roads.

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Squily

Jonathan called me back last night. We discussed various things and he indicated:

• RR are in process of developing and manufacturing carbon fiber (or similar) engine casing guards. This should eliminate the need for a heat guard on the DCT righthand casing (double as a heat guard as well) where I keep burning my leg
• Nitron will produce a replacement shock. They are in process of developing the one-piece top of the shock similar to original shock (rather than the separate canister and tube like on other bikes) - watch this space
• He will look into pre-filter idea
• RR will be producing a high-guard kit, which will include replacement brake lines etc.
• RR have developed a lift kit for the standard front guard that will lift it to the maximum that the standard brake lines will allow (about 30mm, but I might be wrong on this). This will be available shortly.

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Squily

Enjoyed your 3 way review on ADV Rider. I'm surprised your original Africa Twin rates so well. I only rode one once and compared to my DL1000 Vstrom it was "uninspiring". But sounds like it responds well to the right modifications.

I'm curious what the weight difference is between the two Africa Twins. I would think the new bike is a bit lighter weight?

Never got the Varadero in USA but I did see some really nice ones in France.
I saw a few "Dakar-ized" Varadero's there. This back around 2003. Very cool bikes, no idea how they worked off road. Never rode one.

The more I read all your comments the more I realize I'm probably better off staying with my simple and cheap old nail: DR650 single. Cheap to keep, performs well ON/OFF road, packs up well and very tough ... and expendable.

Best BIG TWIN ADV bike I've ridden yet is a friends well set up KTM 950SE.
Not that much heavier than my DR650! If I could trust the motor (I don't) I'd own one!

Still awaiting the Holy Grail in a big Twin ADV bike

I hope you'll keep this thread going and update us on your mods to your new Africa Twin. Let us know your results and thoughts. Looks like your list for initial improvements should address some of the issues. Good luck!

Mollydog - extracts and comments below

I'm surprised your original Africa Twin rates so well. I only rode one once and compared to my DL1000 Vstrom it was "uninspiring". - I share/support your surmise. But the RD07 really comes into its own when you load it up for touring (compared to other machines) and take it off the bitumen. And my review was based on a 'traveling' machine, not an empty bike. The power:mass ratio is terrible. I eventually compromised on reliability and built a 70+hp engine for mine and that was absolutely great. Currently I'm back to the standard engine.


I'm curious what the weight difference is between the two Africa Twins. I would think the new bike is a bit lighter weight? The RD07 is actually lighter than the CRF DCT model I have. The non-ABS model's curb-weight is a few kg lighter than the RD07, but not much. RD07 standard dry: 207.5kg / wet:230kg. CRF dry:208kg / wet:228kg. But power:mass ratios, the CRF is much better than the RD07

no idea how they worked off road. - they can be a handful at 269kg wet, and the 19" front doesn't help, but still not all that hard. Very comparable to the DL.

The more I read all your comments the more I realize I'm probably better off staying with my simple and cheap old nail: DR650 single. Cheap to keep, performs well ON/OFF road, packs up well and very tough ... and expendable. I can't fault your reasoning. But then big twins and big singles are not really comparable and there are pro's and cons to both. You are just best to choose the compromise that works best for your application. I toured big singles for many years (XR's, XT's and KLR's) and still do a few thousand kms on the XR every once in a while, but I just prefer the smoothness and comfort and roominess of the big twins.

Best BIG TWIN ADV bike I've ridden yet is a friends well set up KTM 950SE. Not that much heavier than my DR650! - Yip, what a lovely machine, but I'd be going through too many tyres LOL. A few guys here tried using them for long-distance touring work, but couldn't get the tyres to last (too much fun I guess...). Also not really a machine you can load up for a round-the-world trip (apart from the reliability question marks).

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Squily

Just some feedback- spoke to Tim today when I dropped the bike off. He 'tested' the suspension and According to him- no leaks on the shock, so not a gassing issue. He reckons the oil is cooked and recommends a total rebuild with different viscosity oil, body internals and firmer spring. He also indicated that the Showa can indeed be fully rebuilt and customized. This is good news if true.

Watch this space...


The other good news- seems the AT is now fully loaded on Honda Australia's system so spare part lists and parts themselves are now available (to order at least- I'm still waiting for my heated grips...)

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Squily

Just some feedback on my 'failed' rear shock for other users as future reference:

My request (through the dealer):
Possible failure of the rear shock – the rear shock 1st started showing signs of fading after the 1st service at 1000km. The shock has gotten progressively worse to a state (at around 7000km) where the bike bounces (like a car with worn shock absorbers) when riding ‘loaded’ on bitumen and unloaded on unsealed roads and offroad. The shock appears to work fine when cold, but gets progressively worse as it heats up. The working load of the bike is specified as 195kg, and even with me (as a bulky rider of around 130kg), the rear suspension struggles to perform adequately.

• You indicated /recommended the rear shock will have to be rebuilt (at the cost of a few hundred dollars) – if so- will any of these costs be carried/borne by Honda Australia as a warranty claim?
• Will Honda replace the existing shock under warranty or are there other options/suggestions?

Honda Australia's reply:
From the information provided by the customer and yourself, I believe that the best course of action for the rear shock is to have it serviced and set up to suit the riding style of the customer and the customer's weight. As this is not a warrantable item, it will be at the customer's expense.


Dealer's reply:
The shock issue is a little more complex as we have discussed. After talking with Lincoln we both feel that replacement of the shock with another unit would end up at the same point we are at, just further down the track. We are both of the opinion that due to the demands placed on the rear shock and spring and your particular needs, the best course of action is to service the shock and spring it appropriately.



So there you have it- the rear shock does not live up to the 195kg rating, and if you intend to do long distance off-road touring, make sure you rebuild the shock prior to leaving

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Squily

Man, that is a piss poor response from Honda of Aus. Last I checked, the Africa Twin is not a CRF450 Race bike ... and the rear shock SHOULD be a warrantable item. It is in USA, IIRC. How can it not be? That is insane!

One trick my BMW's buddies would do to get a new shock out of BMW once their shock was toast ... put a bit of shock oil (5 wt should do) on your shock in correct place that would indicate a Blown seal leaking. Two buddies did this on their GS's more than once!!!...result? New shock in both cases. (stock shock on GS was a crap WP unit which everyone I knew replaced with Ohlins, Penske or Wilbur's)

Put some oil on there, take it to another Honda dealer. See what happens.

LOL - Might work, but that won't really fix the problem. I am of the opinion that Honda basically confirmed the shock is not good enough to live up to the 195kg stated design limit and a new replacement will simply fail again.


for better or worse, I sent a response to the dealer and Honda Australia this morning (below). The dealer offered to do the stripping/assembly work for free. So the only cost would be the heavier spring, service cost and freight. Can't fault that.



Thanks for the response. Sorry for the belated reply- I was out bush. I will give you a call later today to discuss. Thanks for the corrosion issue- I’m sure we can arrange something that’ll be suitable. As for the shock:

I’m cc’ing Lincoln in on this, in response to the rear shock issue. This is feedback from me as a disappointed customer. Not in your service or good advice, but in the Africa Twin “brand”. I hope this response finds its way to the appropriate people further up the line- not for a “get what I want”, but in order to improve the model. I guess dealing with issues such as these are part of the ‘joy’ of owning a new model that has not been tested.

I would like to justify my concern by providing the following as background:

• I own several Honda motorcycles and what I’ve done and expected of the 2016 Africa Twin is nothing more than what I have been doing with the others.
• My Varadero XL1000’s shock failed at around 60000km as a result of seal corrosion. I fitted a heavier spring on it at around 20kkm mark. Up until it failed, it never suffered ‘oil breakdown’ and fading.
• My XR600 is still running standard suspension and has done over 30kkm. It has never suffered shock failure or fading (even with a load and that is not even rated at the same weight rating as the 2016 AT)
• My 1997 Africa Twin has over 200kkm on it, I am still running the standard shock (with a stiffer spring fitted at around 80kkm) and has never been rebuilt, or suffered fading.
• My XL600 Transalp is still running a standard shock with no signs of fading

So when I am comparing the 2016 AT shock issue, I am not comparing it to a KTM, or a Dakar racing machine. I simply used it the same as I have used all my previous bikes, same conditions, same load (in fact less as I was trying to conform to the maximum load rating of 195kg), same riding style for what I supposedly thought the bike was designed for. And it failed dismally. We, the consumers, were led to believe this new AT is a cut above the rest with a lot of media hype prior to the launch.

So, getting to the point. I sincerely hope Honda will realise that they possibly have the rear shock settings (be it oil, valving or spring) incorrect and the shock does not live upto designer specification and consumer expectations. I also trust/believe that you will be getting feedback from other users around the world and this is not going to be a once off problem.

Honda consumers have come to associate the brand with robustness and longevity. If I wanted gimmicks, I’d have bought a BMW (I did own one before incidentally). If I wanted unparalleled performance, I would have bought a KTM. I bought the AT hoping it would be a continuance of the excellence that made the original Africa Twin a legend. I am disappointed\

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Squily

Well written letter ... ...lets hope it is actually forwarded to someone UP the food chain. Problem is, if you go too far up you get to Japanese guys who don't speak good English (read even less well).This means some round eye "yes man" will "Translate" (and Edit) the letter and dictate it to them as they see fit. not ideal.

Hopefully your issues will crop up on other AT's world wide and get some attention soon. It took Suzuki 3 or 4 years to address a clutch basket issue on the Vstrom, meanwhile THOUSANDS got replacement ones on warranty.

A simple swap over to another basket on a similar model (SV1000) solved the problem ... NO cost to Suzuki once they stopped a minute and figured it out.

In this case Honda will have to pass the problem on to Showa (Honda own Showa) who can only make the shock as good as the money Honda are willing to pay for it. Showa can make world class shocks for MotoGp bikes ... at a cost of $100K USD each!

But in this case it should not cost a lot more to fix this problem. As you've pointed out ... the bike needs to be tested more, then correct valving worked out and shim stacks perfected. Then find correct oil wt. and oil level, correct spring rates and work on setting up compression and rebound circuits until they ACTUALLY WORK! This may cost Honda a bit in R&D but will pay off in customer satisfaction, word of mouth sales and more.

FWIW - I have a mate who owns a Suzuki/Yamaha dealership. He is of the opinion that Honda was way too eager to release the AT and should have spent more time developing it. Too much, too soon, too cheaply is his opinion.

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Squily

For those following the suspension matter and haven't made up their minds yet, from ThreesomeWithTwins - Three friends on great adventures with their motorcycles!

After 10kkm on their trip:
The electronic suspension of the GS is also much better equipped to carry the weight of a world tourer. Basti is constantly complaining that his front tire of the Africa Twin is to light and Fabi did not have any problems even with a rear passenger. We have put the Africa Twins suspension as tight as possible and Bastis front is still too light. Without the Topcase it is better, but we are seriously considering a new suspension for the Hondas in Thailand.

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Squily

Hi there, after 15'000 km I am pretty satisfied of my CRF

regarding rear shock I just have the feeling that a stronger spring (maybe 90) can do a better job

I am around 80 kg, let's say 90 with all gears and if I fit panniers I already need all preload

with passenger and panniers already have feeling that max pre-load is not enough

put the bike on central stand with loaded panniers is difficult, this means that static SAG is already too high IMHO

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