Let's not forget that the car I mentioned which started this debate on the legalities of removing a DPF is in fact a petrol powered vehicle and does not have a DPF

Our colleagues in the two wheel department are using modern fuel injected bikes, why not for 4x4's?

Just asking, btw not after a fight

I drive a 20 year old Hilux daily and have a Land Cruiser for trips away but with fuel costs so high, I'm considering a change.

These two views are opposites (nothing wrong with that per se); if selling on a vehicle at the end of a trip then the particular vehicle does not become well known, although the vehicle model is known better. In any case, the depreciation will be "realised" in that the capital cost of a replacement vehicle has to be found (or the trips cease).
I think that quite a few motorcycle riders do sell on, but the capital costs involved are much less; having said that, recently I spent less on my 17 year old L/C than on buying most of the motorbikes I have purchased in the last 14 years.

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Dave

Well yes, but there are many who swear by carburettors as fitted in bikes from the 1990s and 1980s + there are incredibly long arguments in the bike threads about the relative merits of FI versus carbs.
I have never seen anyone in the HUBB arguing for carbs to be used on petrol driven 4 wheel vehicles.

Will the Toyotas run on veggie oil, and won't one of them be enough?? Just asking also.

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Dave

yes, fair point re petrol engines, hadn't considered that!

I would say though the depreciation on the new vehicle will cover an awful lot of fuel for one of your other vehicles! On a fully loaded petrol vehicle fuel consumption may not be that great, and, as above, you could reduce your diesel costs by mixing your diesel with cooking oil. Diesel is also cheaper than petrol in most countries.

I am rebuilding my old HJ60 at a cost in excess of £10000. some have suggested that's crazy because the car will never be worth that much, but my argument is a new car will never be worth what you paid for it either!!

Like you, I have a hilux and a landcruiser, but the hilux is a 2012 and build quality just isn't up there with Toyotas of old, and the engine is euro5 so needs low sulphur diesel, and , although I trust it's reliability, the complexity concerns me.

Attractions of the Hj60 for me are, I have owned the vehicle for 8 years, and intend to keep it for at least 20 years so depreciation isn't an issue. Linked with that I am familiar with the vehicle and it is tried and tested in the field. Build quality is incredible, it's totally over engineered and it's relatively simple and, err, sentimentality. Just can't bring myself to sell it, we've been through too much together!

BTW, I'm in Dorset too, where are you?

Honestly,

I'd definatly start from a cheap base vehicle that has good potential and spend the "spare" money on uprating/upgrading as you need it to be.

Because even a new car will need to be modified for what you're looking for and that means you're spending even more money than the new price + that the mods most likely invalidate your warranty anyhow.

As for the scenario of cooking oil mixed with the diesel.

On a petrol car, like the Prado, you could LPG convert it and maybe ensure, that you have an option to refuel from gas bottles, if LPG isn't available. Gives you a second/cheaper option for fuel. With a dual pickup on the LPG tank you could even also feed gas applieances like a cooker then.

/M

LPG is certainly worth while if you are going to eastern Europe. It's widely available and very cheap. Can't see the gas bottle idea working though. there are problems with the connections, they are extremely heavy and I would have serious safety concerns about them. Just fit an LPG tank extra to the main petrol tank. That's the standard way to do it.

I had that on an V6 Petrol L200 Mitsubishi, a 60L tank netween the chassis rails, was well tucked up so no risk of damage. Best MPG I got was 30mpg towing a motorbike on a trailer. With LPG at that time half the cost of diesel that represented the equivalent cost of doing 60mpg, not bad from a 3litre engine!!

When I had a landrover 101 ambulance made into a camper I had a 100 litre tank under the rear bed. Fuel consumption on petrol was about 10mpg, on LPG 8, so the conversion paid for itself pretty quickly.

If you go that route there are a lot of cheap big engine petrol 4x4s out there because people shy away from them due to the fuel costs. A good quality conversion (and it pays to have a good quality one) is £1400-2000

The other big incentive for older vehicles in the UK is road tax. A big engine vehicle (I now a Dacia isn't one of those!) can be eyewateringly expensive to tax, wheras a pre 2000 model is more reasonable.

Obviously my post wasn't clear enough then. Of course you need a LPG tank. You won't get it certified without that. As I specified a tank with dual pickup will let you feed engine and cooker.

The gas bottle idea was to fill/transfer gas into the tank, IF you can't get LPG on a normal filling station. An alternative to fill the car, not to carry around or as a replacement for the LPG tank.

/M

A couple of miles outside of Poole.

One of my boys loves to come travelling with me and now he is older, taking him out of school for a couple of weeks to add to the Easter Holidays seems unfair on his education, so it's now six weeks during the summer holidays for a trip away (although we sneaked in a 3 week trip to Moroc last Xmas) meaning we are heading to the Balkans this year. This got me thinking that for the trips I have planned for the next few years, I don't really need a "full on" 4x4 with the running costs to match, so was looking for a replacement for the Hilux maybe.

I would keep the Land Cruiser I guess for Desert trips, but was thinking of something far more modern and economical as a daily drive and for some trips away.

If money was no object sometime like a VW Transporter 4motion would suit me fine, capable enough for finding some nice camping spots and get away from it all and not to big for a daily drive.

Don't underestimate the Syncro and 4Motion Transporters. They're extremely offroad capable once on lifted suspension. Obviously, there's only one ratio for the gears, but that only requires a different type of driving.

/M

The Hilux is long in the tooth now, but as Moggy with his LC, I'm reluctant to sell it as I've had it for 13 years and it does do 30 mpg pottering to and from work. It would cost a far amount to bring it back to a high enough maintained standard to think of going on a trip in it and to be fair, it's very uncomfortable off road and not that capable either, it is tough as old boots though.

Having two allows one to be off the road for me to carry out maintenance and allows the Land cruiser to have an easy life when not on a trip, like it hardly ever gets driven on a salt treated road.

Both will run on a mixture of veggie oil btw.

I realised that, what I was saying was don't replace the petrol tank with an LPG one, it's too limiting, fit it as well. I can't see any way you would be able to transfer from cylinders into a tank.

hey hey, I'm in blandford!

I agree. You definatly should keep both petrol and LPG tanks. As for refueling, I've seen underslung tanks with that sort of option, so it has to be doable.

/M

It's a tough call IMO; as you indicate, there is a useful purpose to each of the vehicles. In my case, I keep a petrol driven universal-jap-car "in the background" for general use (actually it's south Korean).

I've read elsewhere about the veggie oil capability of these old diesel engines, but I have not bitten on that particular issue as yet; I may do so, as the UK summer weather comes into play.

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Dave

Remember that you only take a hit if you buy brand new and actually sell the vehicle.

I bought my Defender 90 brand new tax free in RAF Germany in 1995 for 14,105.50 GBP

I still have it and I haven't lost a penny on it - Ive had the enjoyment of driving nearly every mile on the clock of a brand new vehicle, I know its been run in properly and used hard but serviced well, its never let me down in 18 years and I know it inside out and back to front

Even though it now needs an overhaul, like Moggy I can spend 6-8000 GBP (engine and drivetrain overhaul, new galvanised chassis, new panels, interior etc) and end up with basically a brand new vehicle as good for overlanding as any Tdci/Td5 juke box

If I bring it to Canada in a few years I could actually still make money on it as they are collectors items over here, there's an ' 86 D90 on Kijiji (gumtree over here) currently for $40,000 CAD! (25,000GBP)

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...AdIdZ480991663

But I will never sell it either!

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca