Of course Ollie, you are right.

Interestingly I followed Graham's problems from the outset - he was very unlucky.

It seems it all stems from a leak in his power steering system - the pump overheated and seized, killing some timing gears which was then 'fixed' badly with the engine not being flushed properly and then cr*p getting into the oil system killing a big end bearing.

It's a shame he didn't spot the initial problems with the power steering pump, it's scary how quickly these things can escalate.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

My LR has been very reliable but there is always something going on that needs sorting, a little niggle here and a little niggle there, most of these niggles are as a result of my constant tinkering and at times it can really upset me, I sometimes threaten to get rid of it and buy a Jap but always, always! come to my senses.

There is something special about owning a LR, it can't be found anywhere else and it comes from the person that built it, the builders moods and attitudes are passed down to the vehicles and you just have to hope that you find one that was built with the right attitude otherwise its going to give you hell for as long as you own it!

Back to the thread, If youre looking in SA, have you considered a Nissan Hardbody? I would take one of these over a Toyota anyday.

Pete, any particular reason why you would choose a Hardbody?
Gil

Sorry, no. I had a Disco 300Tdi and wanted to find out, but got conflicting info.

Ended up taking off the PTO cover plate on the transfer box and having a look.

Have a look here: Ashcroft Transmissions
(handy people to know about anyway, in case you need a new gear box :-)

Hi,
this is turning out to be a lot of attention for a quick three month trip.

The LR bashers are all ranting from the principle that we're talking about a car that comes from Solihull (just the name depresses me)

But in fact the query is about a LR built in SA; which means assembled in a BMW factory if I'm not mistaken.
Suddenly build quality takes on another meaning.

Does anyone actually know how much of the "Solihull rubbish" (which I presume refers to the electric and other niggly stuff) is re-used in the SA built cars? Or do they source their electronics elsewhere?

I lived 6 years in and around SA and I can't remember anywhere you couldn't get in a rear wheel drive with decent ground clearance; unless you really went looking to get stuck...

What about a combi? The SA built rear engine T3 are really fantastic and surprisingly capable, with a bit more living space. You could also ship it back at the end of the trip. The T3 campers still fetch amazing money, and a rust free SA built one would be snapped up rapidly.
Whatever.
Have a good trip (even if it's too short to enjoy everything SA has to offer)
Luke

Hi all

The old LC v LR debate again.......always fires people up! FWIW I am culturally and temperamentally more of a LR person than a LC one, but when I did my trip I wanted to be sure something would happen every time I pushed a pedal or turned a key in foreign parts. But for some people emotion plays a bigger part and, provided you have access to the necessary support, the lesser reliability of LRs may be outweighed by the greater character. Just a shame LRs don't have that lovely 6 cylinder diesel engine that LCs have!

Mark

overlandcruiser.net

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www.overlandcruiser.wordpress.com

The bit I never understand is that people always talk about LRs havng character, but not LCs - although this mainly seems to come from LR fans.

What is it that give the LRs character?

Personally I think that LCs have bags of character.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

I think it must be something that some people feel, and others don't. But essentially when I jump in a toyota it feels like jumping in a car, whereas jumping in a Defender feels like you are jumping in an adventure.
Perhaps I haven't driven the right Toyota?

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

Wouldn't swap my old landie - can't say it's ever broken down on me, though I do have to fix a few niggly bits from time to time and just keep on top of maintenance.

For me overlanding and owning a 4x4 are a combined hobby, and I'd be pretty bored pretty quickly if I never had to do any work on the 90 as unfortunately trips only come up rarely.

Back to the original question - 300 or TD5 - probably 300TDi for me if it's going to be kept standard. I'd have a TD5 though if there was scope to upgrade the ECU, drop a bigger I/C in and have a Twisted Performance exhaust on - makes em sound like a 1980's Audio Quatro

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www.simba4x4.com

I guess there is always the excitement of - will we make it or not :-)

I don't think there is any right or wrong Toyota, it's more down to how you connect with it. I thnk my 80 has bags of character and is definitely not like jumping into a car. It's things like reassuring sturdiness and reliability, that are part of it's character as well as the surge you get from that big turboed six cylinder.

Whilst my children fell instantly in love with a friends topless series one LR because of it's quirky looks they go into hysterics when ever I mention that I'll be getting a 100 series LC next year because they love the 80 and the way it faultlessly took us around Morocco, has taken them through the snow to school and on various play days I've organised for ELCO.

I guess it's down to the individual, but I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.

__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

I do believe that LRs are better off-road than LCs......as I didn't (and don't) have the expertise to use this superior ability, I didn't see the point in going for a LR. And in any case, the further away you are from 'civilisation' the less likely you are to do anything that's going to risk breaking something or getting stuck.

Were I buying a vehicle to go greenlaning in the UK, for eg, it might have been a different matter.

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www.overlandcruiser.wordpress.com

[/quote] I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.[/quote]


You'll probably find that most LR owners don't really care too much to justify beyond that - they're an enthusiasts 4x4 and do what they do very well - buuuut -

If you want more reasons than character though, come green laning with me in Shropshire and Wales and draw your own conclusions.
Then perhaps the next day I could take my canvas off and have half a ton of gravel dropped in the back by a JCB at the garden centre (did that in the summer), doesn't matter if it gets dirty 'cos I can hose it out.
Then the next day I could fit a 8 seater dining table and chairs in it (did that yesterday!) .
Then the same motor can be taking me to the Libyan desert, pulling big lardy toyotas out of the dunes.
I can also cook pasties and croque monsieur on the engine, use my front bumper like an anvil, open bottles with my doors, and if I bend a panel I can hit it back out with the bottom of a shoe. On top of all that, the more battered it gets the cooler it looks, it's worth more now than when I bought it six years ago, is 22 years old and will still be around in another 22.

I've got more if you want me to go on

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www.simba4x4.com

OK, maybe you can't do that with an 80, but no problem with a rag topped 70 series which would be the equivalent of your old truck.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

First back to the original part of the thread:

LR's in SA are generally overpriced, overworked sheds, unless you are willing to pay a fortune.

Toyota's - 60's, 70's, 80's and 100's can be found but not in huge numbers, but often better looked after. Hilux's aplenty and definitely underestimated!

Nissan Patrols and Navara's, (D22's - old shaped) also seem to abound.

Choice's, (IMHO):
Toyota
Nissan
Land Rover

but do not ignore the other options - Isuzu etc.

If interested try www.bailliesoffroad.co.za

speak o Stuart, or his wife Cath, what he doesn't know or can't/hasn't done to a Toyota (or a Landie for that matter), is worth knowing about.
The vehicle - 80 series, fully prepped - I purchased from him was envied by many, and I had people fighting over it when it came time for me to sell.

If in doubt about LC over LR, check out the Poland rover website, the owner a member here, spent a veritable fortune in time, love and money on his Disco, but the lack of reliability turned to to the light and he now drives an 80 - infact I believe he is inor on his way to the Gilf as I type this.

Also look at how many of the companies that run trips out to the Sahara and North/west Africa run Toyotas - mainly 80's. And nearly all I am sure started out as 'LR people'.

Keep on Cruisin'

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ChrisC

Gil

Just my preference, you see I grew up with Nissans, Datsuns as they were called when my Dad got his first one. He used to run his own motor mech workshop and the Nissans were always the work horses, we used everything from 1400 bakkies right up to the Kingcab/double cab bakkies and never had any problems or break downs.

They are as reliable as Toyotas and in my opinion are also better looking vehicles and for the original poster who only wants it for 3 months, there is probably more choice and better value too. It all comes down to personal choice at the end of the day, the thing that grates my carrot is people that have done overland trips etc(have the T-shirt) and think that they know everything about vehicles because of one (or a few) trips in a certain vehicle and then go about imposing their opinions on other folk.

The other thing that I don't think is right is when someone comes onto this site looking for vehicle advice and that person is bombarded (generally) with posts which are openly and unashamedly biased to Toyotas and this is reflected in most of the relevant posts in the 4x4 section, this is after all a neutral forum? This is ALWAYS going to be a heated debate/discussion.

My views on LR? These cars and there after market parts are easily available and easily tinkered with, and lets be honest, some people have no business tinkering with vehicles, I mean that in a good way. This is probably why there are more failures, because most LR's have been thrashed to within an inch of there lives in every conceivable way then sold on to some poor bloke with a dream of overlanding and what does he buy? Problems, he buys problems and when things go pair shaped he then hops on to a forum like this and states that LR's are the worst vehicle ever built etc etc.

Peter