Hi all

The old LC v LR debate again.......always fires people up! FWIW I am culturally and temperamentally more of a LR person than a LC one, but when I did my trip I wanted to be sure something would happen every time I pushed a pedal or turned a key in foreign parts. But for some people emotion plays a bigger part and, provided you have access to the necessary support, the lesser reliability of LRs may be outweighed by the greater character. Just a shame LRs don't have that lovely 6 cylinder diesel engine that LCs have!

Mark

overlandcruiser.net

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The bit I never understand is that people always talk about LRs havng character, but not LCs - although this mainly seems to come from LR fans.

What is it that give the LRs character?

Personally I think that LCs have bags of character.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

I think it must be something that some people feel, and others don't. But essentially when I jump in a toyota it feels like jumping in a car, whereas jumping in a Defender feels like you are jumping in an adventure.
Perhaps I haven't driven the right Toyota?

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

Wouldn't swap my old landie - can't say it's ever broken down on me, though I do have to fix a few niggly bits from time to time and just keep on top of maintenance.

For me overlanding and owning a 4x4 are a combined hobby, and I'd be pretty bored pretty quickly if I never had to do any work on the 90 as unfortunately trips only come up rarely.

Back to the original question - 300 or TD5 - probably 300TDi for me if it's going to be kept standard. I'd have a TD5 though if there was scope to upgrade the ECU, drop a bigger I/C in and have a Twisted Performance exhaust on - makes em sound like a 1980's Audio Quatro

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I guess there is always the excitement of - will we make it or not :-)

I don't think there is any right or wrong Toyota, it's more down to how you connect with it. I thnk my 80 has bags of character and is definitely not like jumping into a car. It's things like reassuring sturdiness and reliability, that are part of it's character as well as the surge you get from that big turboed six cylinder.

Whilst my children fell instantly in love with a friends topless series one LR because of it's quirky looks they go into hysterics when ever I mention that I'll be getting a 100 series LC next year because they love the 80 and the way it faultlessly took us around Morocco, has taken them through the snow to school and on various play days I've organised for ELCO.

I guess it's down to the individual, but I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

I do believe that LRs are better off-road than LCs......as I didn't (and don't) have the expertise to use this superior ability, I didn't see the point in going for a LR. And in any case, the further away you are from 'civilisation' the less likely you are to do anything that's going to risk breaking something or getting stuck.

Were I buying a vehicle to go greenlaning in the UK, for eg, it might have been a different matter.

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[/quote] I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.[/quote]


You'll probably find that most LR owners don't really care too much to justify beyond that - they're an enthusiasts 4x4 and do what they do very well - buuuut -

If you want more reasons than character though, come green laning with me in Shropshire and Wales and draw your own conclusions.
Then perhaps the next day I could take my canvas off and have half a ton of gravel dropped in the back by a JCB at the garden centre (did that in the summer), doesn't matter if it gets dirty 'cos I can hose it out.
Then the next day I could fit a 8 seater dining table and chairs in it (did that yesterday!) .
Then the same motor can be taking me to the Libyan desert, pulling big lardy toyotas out of the dunes.
I can also cook pasties and croque monsieur on the engine, use my front bumper like an anvil, open bottles with my doors, and if I bend a panel I can hit it back out with the bottom of a shoe. On top of all that, the more battered it gets the cooler it looks, it's worth more now than when I bought it six years ago, is 22 years old and will still be around in another 22.

I've got more if you want me to go on

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OK, maybe you can't do that with an 80, but no problem with a rag topped 70 series which would be the equivalent of your old truck.

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Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.

First back to the original part of the thread:

LR's in SA are generally overpriced, overworked sheds, unless you are willing to pay a fortune.

Toyota's - 60's, 70's, 80's and 100's can be found but not in huge numbers, but often better looked after. Hilux's aplenty and definitely underestimated!

Nissan Patrols and Navara's, (D22's - old shaped) also seem to abound.

Choice's, (IMHO):
Toyota
Nissan
Land Rover

but do not ignore the other options - Isuzu etc.

If interested try www.bailliesoffroad.co.za

speak o Stuart, or his wife Cath, what he doesn't know or can't/hasn't done to a Toyota (or a Landie for that matter), is worth knowing about.
The vehicle - 80 series, fully prepped - I purchased from him was envied by many, and I had people fighting over it when it came time for me to sell.

If in doubt about LC over LR, check out the Poland rover website, the owner a member here, spent a veritable fortune in time, love and money on his Disco, but the lack of reliability turned to to the light and he now drives an 80 - infact I believe he is inor on his way to the Gilf as I type this.

Also look at how many of the companies that run trips out to the Sahara and North/west Africa run Toyotas - mainly 80's. And nearly all I am sure started out as 'LR people'.

Keep on Cruisin'

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ChrisC

Gentlemen

please keep it calm.

Welldone Ollie and Gil for trying to reduce the heat from this 'arguement', this is a forum where many people enjoy spending their free time discussing trips, overlanding, vehicles, camping etc, etc, etc.
We are all individuals and all have our personal opinions, whether that be biased one way or another it is an opinion no more no less. Please do not diss or insult someone for their choice or opinion, however, a little constructive criticism never hurt any one!
So please enjoy, respect others opinions, choices and comments - you do not have to agree, but you certainly do not have to insult anyone.


While we are at it, comments like this below do not prove anything:

Quote:
"If you want more reasons than character though, come green laning with me in Shropshire and Wales and draw your own conclusions.
Then perhaps the next day I could take my canvas off and have half a ton of gravel dropped in the back by a JCB at the garden centre (did that in the summer), doesn't matter if it gets dirty 'cos I can hose it out.
Then the next day I could fit a 8 seater dining table and chairs in it (did that yesterday!) .
Then the same motor can be taking me to the Libyan desert, pulling big lardy toyotas out of the dunes.
I can also cook pasties and croque monsieur on the engine, use my front bumper like an anvil, open bottles with my doors, and if I bend a panel I can hit it back out with the bottom of a shoe. On top of all that, the more battered it gets the cooler it looks, it's worth more now than when I bought it six years ago, is 22 years old and will still be around in another 22.
I've got more if you want me to go on"


A Toyota 70 series pick up could do exactly the same - infact I saw a number in Africa that were used and abused, but still going 100's of ?,000's of miles later.
I met farmers, tour operators, miners, etc who swore by Toyota, Land Rover and/or Nissan/, but these were all opinions, one doesn't make another right or wrong just different.
Enjoy!!

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy and Prosperous New Year

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ChrisC

Back to the original question. I would personally avoid any pre. 300TDi and go for a non molested, standard vehicle. Difficult to find in the LR world but they do exist.

In the UK people seem to like ex. Utility Defenders. They are well serviced but could have led a hard life. Towing mini diggers/heavy plant and used by inconsiderate people can put huge stress on drive trains etc. Ex. BT or Water Utilities could be OK though.

Maybe a completely standard and pampered Discovery that’s never been used in anger?

We have TD5’s and apart ECU to injector wiring loom problems and cracked inlet manifolds they seem to last pretty well.

New Ford engined ones don’t seem to have a good reputation but I don’t have any personal knowledge.

The basic difference between Japanese and LR is that the former is far easier to find second hand in an unmodified and un-abused state. There’s a huge amount of after market junk available for LR’s which owners seem compelled to bolt on with little or no knowledge. (if you want proof, there’s a recent court case in the UK where some guy has been sent to prison after he killed his passengers when his bodged LR left the road and ended up in a river). Sorry UK rather than SA based opinion’s but the same principles must apply.

So IMHO go for the youngest / standard LR and they are OK.

I know, thats why my post was deliberately silly - this my cars better than yours stuff should have been left behind in the playground and is just distracting.



Mind you, my 90 is still better than a 70.
With knobs on.

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