Sure smart phones are available in many places; but not everywhere. You may have to drive to a major city to find one. I suspect you haven't tried to buy a smart phone in Argentina or Brasil. The prices are prohibitive.

I think your response has the imbedded assumption that everywhere is similar as Calgary to buy a smart phone. It is not. Most of the time in traveling in foreign countries, losing functionality of your navigation system is a big deal; something that is not easily rectified. That is why i argue for redundancy.

Here is a simple solution to nav redundancy.
Have 2 sat navs!! Each with their own powered mounts. Weighs little and offers peace of mind.
An old fashioned but reliable compass is also a must have.
Make your own choices in terms of kit and, in fact, everything else!!!
Whatever works for you is fine!

Sat nav redundancy = paper map.

I find the paper map is much easier for night time planing. And its batteries don't go flat. And locals are better with a paper map, some are not sat nav friendly.

So - yes I use a GPS ... but I also use a paper map.

Your montera ,, is a copycat of an Android ... put out by garmin ,,posthaste less than a year ago. If former garmin quality and after service is any indication ,, good luck.
With any smart phone ,, in fact any phone ,, one can hear the music or phone ,, using ear phone or blue tooth ,, sorry I like my music blaring streophonic ,, while I ride.
All Android navigation ,, while playng music ,, when the turn by turn instruction comes on , music goes down,, then comes right back to music volume.

Yes montera ,,playing catch up has put in a wifi ,, yet it still is not a telephone,, nor a computer , nor a good camera ,,can not use skype,,kakao ,, can not surf internet,, can not attach a sat phone. This review asks ,, why ,, what is it garmin,, this monterra at 750 bucks + 30 for this ,, 100 for that ,,? (garmin really knows how to sell you ancilliary things to you)
http://www.globeriders.com/article_p...monterra.shtml

99% of the garmins ,, still has to be plugged into a pc ,, to download maps ,, and at a great hassle! If you don't pay for their blood curling high priced maps , one has to learn a whole life time to download OSM and also learn how to use it.

You can buy smart phones, in 90% of the world.
https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...es+in+mongolia

https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...phones+in+Iran

https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...ones+in+Soweto

https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...n+Sierra+Leon+

https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...phones+in+Peru

Try buying a garmin ,, on the market place in Wakhan Valley or Kashigar,,, smart phone is possible. They even use solar panels to charge the suckers.
One can even buy one in Medina Souk or at the open market in Marekesh.
Used ones are under 100 bucks ,,

Again ,, smart phones now days...
WATER PROOF ,, (see if any garmin will stay in the water for 30 minutes in one meter deep water)
DUST PROOF ,,
IMPACT PROOF ,,
Immense power of internet ,, navigation, gps tracking ,, telecommunication ,, free VIDEO calls to family using Kakao or Skype with wifi or data ,, under your finger tip.
More than a dozen choices of FREE OFF LINE maps ,, with out studying how to for ages!
20 MEGA PIXEL cameras ,,,
32 GB + 14 GB average storage ,,
BRIGHT 5 INCH SCREEN,,
DOZEN COMPASS apps.

No NEED to carry the camera ,, computer and GPS ,, do carry a paper map for the romance sake.


Take a nice one in the pannier ,, use the old one on the handle bar ,, like the fake wallet we carry.

Why carry,, telephone,, garmin ,, lap top ,, camera ,,

Remember ,, smart phones,,,
WATER PROOF ,,
DUST PROOF ,,
IMPACT PROOF ,,,
US Army is using it ,, so does British Military ,, Frech army since long ago,,, rugged enough for the battle field, on the hills of Afghanistan. Korean army uses it with a scrambler. One Iphone even saved a soldiers life,, blocking a bullett.
https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...smart%20phones

Time to catch up with changing times folks ,, technology evolution is coming our way.
garmin is an one trick pony ,, Google and Apple , with massive,, global App developers are keep churning out new mind blowing stuff every day.

Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:08 AM
I just received a Monterra for Christmas. The hardware seems very nice. The only negative things are the speaker volume is weak and battery life seems short. If you turn off wifi and BT the life might be acceptable but I have not used it outdoors enough to know. I have the latests sw on it. The unit cannot direct you in a straight line to a point in the middle of an open field if you follow the map pointer. The compass on these units is typically off by 15 to 60 degrees. If you follow the compass pointer you end up spiraling in to the cache. This is not what you expect from a $700 GPSr. It seems to lose geocache descriptions, logs and crash often. It has been so frustrating to use for geocaching I have only used it out side about 3 times. Garmin started shipping these in June 2013. They had a sw update in October and December of the same year and these units still have very basic flaws that should have never been in the first units sold. After two sw releases the units still have very bad flaws. The unit has great potential to be the best GPSr ever for the enthusiast but I would not buy one of these untill you read on the monterra wiki that the sw update have really fixed the compass problem. Many people have sent there's back and I am going to send mine back also. When/If they get the sw and possible hw problems fixed I will buy on. As slow as they are fixing fundemental problem I suspect it will take at least a year to get them fixed.

New Free Samsung GT-N8000 Galaxy Note 800 / GT-N8010 Galaxy Note 10.1 Maps Apps Download

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP2S5yDZ3cY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9J611BuXhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKUz6xLcwZw

No matter ,, how hard I search,, there is no garmin drop test or water test on youtube.

Every Garmin I've had and have need(ed) a computer. And they have shat themselves whilst on a trip. The Garmin's that run android are basically evolving on the same path the phones have, starting with a GPS instead of a GSM, but over a decade behind the curve.

I don't buy the redundancy argument. Most (not all) people that travel with one, can't navigate without a GPS. Often relying on turn-by-turn navigation, relying on often old maps. Most times you only need to know in what valley you are. If there is a trail infront of your front wheel pointing in the direction you want to go, you're doing ok.
Unless you ride a 300 kg GS and you want a highway.

Back before openstreetmap and google maps Garmin was useful because they were pretty much the only source of trackable maps. But only in developed countries. On my trip through South America in 2005 it was absolutely useless. The one before that I had an etrex and only used it once in Mongolia to check if I was roughly going the into the right valley chasing fuel. Map screen version were too expensive.

So if you are going to use openstreetmap, and you have an android device that you just upgraded (as I said, most people are not on their first android smartphone) that you already use in day to day life, why buy another that does exactly the same thing?

This thread is to try offer an alternative view and help new bike travelers save some money from buying another item they really don't need. Just like other thread provide an alternative view to set fire to that Touratech catalog. A dedicated GPS is a luxury item, and a redundant one at that. Not a must have. If your phone does the same thing, that'll do just fine.

As was said. Redundancy is a paper map. Having digital maps in you pocket just helps you carry less of them. Its much easier to zoom on a smartphone and navigate old school with a digitized "paper" topo map than it is on a Garmin. At least the ones I've had/ have.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

I am guessing that the this whole debate is missing out exactly where and when gps devices are useful. A GPS device proves its worth in cities or when looking for a POI. A paper map will never be able to replicate this function. So paper maps as redundancy for a GPS unit is a non-starter.

The best maps I have seen for South America (where i travel) are all maps intended for Garmin installation. They are not Garmin branded, but they are third party maps made for Garmin. OSM is only one of these products. I also have the best paper maps for South America (Reise), and they are not sufficient for urban travel.

I don't use a smart phone for navigation when traveling so perhaps I am not aware of exactly all the apps available. In any case, aside from turn-by-turn navigation (essential in urban areas), the other item which is make or break for a nav system is the ability to have 1000's of custom POIs imported into the device. In my case, I am interested in POIs for camping. I need a device which can easily import those POIs from my computer (essential as that is where the POI file is prepared and created), and also display the notes of each POI in a clearly readable fashion (such as Garmin Nuvi).

Scope is definitely debatable. The scope you describe can all be achieved on a smart phone. Plenty app examples have already been provided in this tread. This scope is where it started for the smart phones. It took longer to become useful for backcountry use. It's finally here. It's all I use in the Rockies backcountry now.

Don't agree on the dismissal of paper maps though. It's been used for urban travel up to when google maps became readily available by the masses with city street indexes.
It's easier, but some people follow the instructions of the voice guidance and don't pay attention anymore. Plenty off comic news stories of people driving into rivers etc.

It's easy enough to write down a turn list. Or follow gut instinct to find city centres. Particularly easy in south America.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Tons of ways to load POI ,, way points ,,
I even loaded Walter's way points on my sygic.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...oid+navigation

For the sake of objectivity, I’ll reply Seouljoe

It is clear that you, for some unknown reason, dislike Garmin. This is your choice and your right. You have posted obsessively on that subject for a long time ‘ad nauseatum’ and it really serves no purpose.

It would greatly help others if you could refrain from this from now on and avoid posting misleading information driven by your above feeling. Allow others to draw their own conclusions based on objective and impartial reviews. It is important to provide as accurate information as possible.

From what you have posted, and I say this without wishing to cause you any offense SeoulJoe, it is clear that you have very little understanding of real Navigation and even less of the Monterra as evidenced below- replying to the points you raised:

* All electronic devices from computers/satnavs/mobile phones/smart phones/diagnostic devices/ TV's etc. have had software updates- It is just the way things are. Most are designed to resolve issues and offer improvements although, at times, not always!

* The Monterra’s original compass drift has been corrected quite some time ago.

* The unit’s battery longevity is virtually the same as the Montana satnav unless, of course, you use the new and additional Apops - some power hungry-running under Android such as Bluetooth/Wifi / Skype etc. – most people use a powered mount.

* The music level, at maximum, is loud enough to remain loud at 70mph, being the local legal limit in the UK and close to most in Europe. I cannot comprehend the need for having music blaring out from speakers mounted on a motorcycle; it seems rather puerile and attention seeking to me.

* Your comment: “The unit cannot direct you in a straight line to a point in the middle of an open field if you follow the map pointer.” Is misleading and totally incorrect.
The Monterra can (indeed as can the Montana and 64ST) navigate ‘point to point’ in a straight line with or without mapping using either the pointer or compass pointer. There are many routing options within the Monterra’s settings to allow you to do this as well as using the icon Sight-N’-Go option which is particularly useful on trails and/or featureless terrain.

I understand your love of smart-phones and they are indeed excellent. I’m probably as attached to mine as you are to yours!

What would be useful ,as you appear to know about smart phones, would be for you to take the time to post your in depth review of the ones you are using and feel are particularly good for travel to help others decide.

Gunt86
FYI- in addition to the huge number of POI’s within City Navigator 2015-2 (and I am going to guess is similar in other Garmin CityNav products) I have databases of currently just over 318,000 of them- plus the 31,007 campsites contained in Archie’s Europe.
These have worked in the 278C, 60CSX, 62S, Montana, 64ST and lastly the Monterra.

=> There is a way of creating your own POI files in .csv format which enables a very large amount ** of waypoints to be available in a small (-er file than a .gpx) file- the only downside of the .csv (or .gpx) files is that they cannot be edited once in the unit if a waypoint if found to be wrong/missing as you are going along. I hope this is useful to you and feel free to pm me if you'd like to know 'how to' (assuming you don't know! apologies if you do.)

** very large compared to various limits in different satnavs- of 'live-aka editable' waypoints.

I always travel with paper maps ( Rese Know-How are very good if available) and a compass as well as my smart phone and sat nav which both provide useful additional information and navigation.

I agree with Warin - keep it simple. I just carry a map. Another device is just more stuff deal with. I'm 2 up on a DR650 and I see guys on their own with more stuff than we have all the time. In my opion, the energy that goes into keeping track of, packing, loading and unloading stuff that you don't really need often outweighs the benefit of having it.

Per above comments from Bertrand - can't speak for SoulJoe, but I certainly have a personal dislike for Garmin simply because I think they provide poor value by selling overpriced repackaged data that is meant to be freely available. Its not like they went out and collected it. Since everyone walks around with a GPS unit in their pocket now that allows you to use the same data for free, their days would seem to be numbered.

__________________
bugsonmyboard.org
two wheeled wave hunting dispatches

I use smart phone for navigation in my car, it works great for going from A to B on regular roads. But unlike a traditional GPS it's not allowed (in Norway) to fiddle with it when I'm driving.

For navigation on a bike I find the phone useless. Basic navigation tasks as projection of waypoints and "offroad-routes" doesn't exist, you can't see bearings to waypoints (you cant even see bearing in real time!) etc.
This might be possible to solve with apps, but I don't care because the screen is hard to read, it's a nightmare to operate the screen with gloves and the unit is fragile.

Hmm, the GPS and maps on the phone suddenly stopped to work after the latest fw-update..

My dear Garmin-unit has been working for 11 years, I've had 7 phones during that time. 6 are dead now, drowned, crashed or died with battery-failure. The one that still works have a cracked screen and the USB-plug is starting to make problems.
Once the accessory-plug on my bike melted when the charger caught fire.

Still I think that this might change, and I will use the phone - hopefully my Garmin will continue to work in the meantime!

I see that this thread has stood the test of time with multi-thousands of viewings and hundreds of replies even though it never did make it to become one of the exalted "stickies".

It's been running strongly for over 2 1/2 years.

Speaks for itself.

__________________
Dave