Originally Posted by tmotten

...I disagree with your statement that a phone can't achieve the same results in urban areas as a dedicated GPS (navigator)...

...Now with dedicated GPS (navigator) having similar hardware as currently used in smartphones the only value would the maps that you suggested....

Originally Posted by tmotten

the course you're after seems to be way out of scope for most.

Originally Posted by PanEuropean

There is no doubt that the speed of the hardware (processors) provided in phones and tablets has increased dramatically in recent years, and it is this increase in processor speed that has enabled map display and some navigational guidance to be provided (offline) using phones and tablets. But, at the same time, the manufacturers of the dedicated GPS navigators have also taken advantage of increased processor speed and capabilities to enhance the guidance their products provide. Examples of this include lane guidance, photo-realistic display of overhead signs, and spoken street names.
Michael

Originally Posted by Walkabout

An incidental report of yesterday:
The Android OS now has 85% of the smart phone market.
Apple takes another 11% which leaves the balance 4% for Blackberry et al to fight over.
(I didn't pick up if this report relates to the UK market or worldwide).

Who knows where this tech will be in, say, another 2 1/2 years (which is the time that has elapsed since seouljoe started this thread - so it really is all your fault Joe but no "the messenger should not be shot").

Originally Posted by tmotten

Daily life is a bit different than being subjected to massive vibrations. But I haven't seen many accounts from people with first hand experience. It's just ECB just like garmin uses. Screen possibly a bit different, but insulate it from vibration adequately (variable parameter obviously) and adequately ventilation and I can't see the big deal.

Originally Posted by PanEuropean

Well, my moto touring is very different than yours. I looked at your blog, and at the places you have been, and the only place that a dedicated GPS navigator with a commercial database would have done you any good (considering the cartography available at the time you made your trips) would have been on your Australia tour, and that was nearly 20 years ago.

Earlier this week, I finished a 10,000 km trip from Zurich to the Peloponnese and back, taking in all but one of the former Yugoslavian countries, all on pavement except for about 5 km. That 5 km was not intentional, believe me. A ST1100 is a lousy dirt bike.

You and I pursue very different approaches to international touring, hence, it's not at all surprising that we choose different navigation solutions.

Michael

Originally Posted by Walkabout

This is one of a dozen reasons why this thread started, way back when there were a series of other such threads about smart phones in this forum which never really addressed the multitude of facets related to the subject.

The title of this thread, in total not paraphrased and as I understood it in "conversation" with seouljoe at that time, was to bring out the rapidly developing smart phone issues - hence, and just as one instance, I posted a couple of days ago about how dedicated trail riders in the UK are looking at using GPS to track/plan their riding.
i.e. "offroad" not on the established highways.

There has been some useful input in the past couple of days which relate to navigation across featureless terrain, whether it be at sea, in the air or across desert: useful because that input provides background information to the utility of GPS based navigation and how it is being used to provide increased levels of information to those driving tin-cans on 4 wheels.
Such developments are also being made for (as just one instance) heavy truck drivers so that they have no excuses for becoming stuck under low bridges or jammed between the houses of historic streets in the UK or between the dry stone walls of the byways.

But I believe the thread is supposed to be about using smart phones; peoples' experiences with the hardware (changing rapidly), the software (also changing rapidly) and the fixing of the kit to motorcycles (and perhaps other types of vehicles) in preference to the very heavy bias there has been within this forum to dedicated Satnav unts and garmin in particular (as someone else mentioned, at times the HUBB can appear to be a product placement forum for Garmin in particular).

I certainly see no reason whatsoever to get on the back of the OP and suggest that the thread be locked or that he should disown it by not making his views known.

I still use a really old second hand Garmin nuvi 205W and a tablet to navigate, but most of the time a few sticky notes on the screen suffice.

Originally Posted by seouljoe

This is very good place to start... Sygic Navigation for Smartphones

Originally Posted by PanEuropean

Joe:

I took a good look at the Sygic website today. Overall, I'm quite impressed with what their product appears to be able to do - provide route guidance with lane direction, provide traffic (though not by FM RDS, they use the cell network), identify speed limits on roads, support and use road attributes, and provide speed camera warnings.

I have not downloaded the application (at $70 for world coverage, that's a bit too expensive to download strictly for 'try-out' purposes, although it is certainly a reasonable price for the application and cartography). So, I have a few questions for you, as I presume this is the application you use.

1) What about the 'waterproof' issue? Are any of the Android smartphones waterproof (for example, IPX-7 rated, as most motorcycle GPS navigators are)? I use an iPhone, I know it is not waterproof.

Michael ,,
Many many waterproof Android phones, a dozen or so ,, 30 minutes guarantee in one meter deep water,,, it will survive toilet ,, wash machine ,, creeks etc, Please go see the urls ,, few posts up. You can also waterproof your iphone via this company,,
Liquipel the Alternative to a Waterproof Phone Case
They have outlets in big malls or you can send your phone in.

If one puts the phone inside a waterproof case, is it still possible to control the navigation application via touch?

Ram mount has waterproof boxes with finger contact.
RAM AQUA BOX® Pro 20 Case, CRADLE CLIP, BELT CLIP, BELT CLIP BUTTON and LANYARD for the iPhone 5, 4 & 3 WITH OR WITHOUT CASE, SKIN OR SLEEVE
My Review of the RAM Aqua Box. ( Medium Size ) - YouTube
I use it and it works. They have many models

2) I note that Sygic states that their cartography comes with a lifetime licence for the Android platform. But, their application runs on both the Android and iPhone operating systems. Do you know what the cartography licence (and availability of free updates) is for the iPhone? I couldn't find that information on their website.

You sign up with an EM account,, via google play helps. It stays in their corporate and google play store memory,.. legacy forever. You can download as many times as you wish ,, in as many machines as you want! I have downloaded over 12 times. You've paid for it,, you own it!

3) How much space does the cartography take up? My iPhone has 64 gb of storage (it is an iPhone 4S), of which about 30 GB could be made available for storing maps. Typically, there is a direct relationship between population of an area and map size for the same area. By way of example, how much space does it take to store all the cartography for South Korea (population 50 million, roughly the same as Germany)?

Germany is around 500 mb ,, Albania is 23 mb ,, UK is 800 mb , Russia is 500mb ,, dependes on the country size and their historical sophistication of their infrastructure. S. Korea is only 45 mb ,, a small shit little country. Has nothing to do with demographics,, it is a map of the road after all.
You can download entire world for arounf 2gb ,, still you will not have the garmin slow down on the sd card stress ,, since smartphones comes with minimum 1.4gb processing power. Also ,, you should only download the ares you are using. Then during the trip ,, record your waypoints,, and make a nice map of the journey for the posterity.

4) How does one cope with the cartography storage limits when moving from one country to another, or when traversing a large country such as the USA? Can zones of coverage be removed and added from the phone at will, using a Wi-Fi connection, or is computer support needed for storing all the cartography that won't fit on the phone?

No ,, it's all offline. You would start the trip with the maps already loaded ,, for the updates ,, you will be using hotel wifi or data provided by your carrier. If you are overseas and do not want to use data ,, shit any starbucks has free wifi.

5) I was a bit surprised to see that Sygic claims (on their Apple App Store website) to use the same cartography as Tom Tom. Is this commercial or open source software? I'm not familiar with Tom Tom cartography. Do you know who the major provider is, for example Navteq, Magellan, Nokia, OSM, etc.?

I am told OSM ,, but I also belive since their frequent FREE updates,, they use several formats.

6) It appears that if one buys world coverage ($70) plus most of the bells and whistles offered as options (traffic notification, speed cameras, HUD, etc.), the full initial purchase cost will be about $100 to $130. Nothing wrong with that. But, how does this company generate ongoing revenue? Do they charge for application (software) updates? Or is it truly a 'pay once, use forever' service?

It's on sale ,,, for 40 euro for the whole world ,, grab it ,, I paid 70 euro ,, as you can see after 62 million downloads ,, price is coming down ,, imagine,, 30 bucks profit per download x 30 million(not counting freebies) nice little internet business. This is the idea ,, soon it will be 5 bucks. Price two years ago was 110 euro for the world. They don't have much overhead either. Free maps,,,Many countries if they find that you have speed camera warnig waypoints,, you will be fined heavy,, also unless you use your bike for commute ,, why bother with traffic congestion warning ? PS. I am not a paid tout by Sygic.

7) How is route planning carried out? Can it be done on a computer (rather than the phone)? My experience with route planning for aviation done on phones is that the phone is a lot more difficult (cumbersome) to use for route development and route planning than a traditional computer application, followed by transfer of the route to the phone.

Yes ,, you can plan the route via your phone or using google map or earth ,, attch your phone to the pc as a storage device ,, then find the sygic directory ,, map or route file ,, use mouse to transfer ,, boot up the sygic , voilla !
https://www.google.co.kr/webhp?sourc...+sygic&spell=1

Based on my initial review of the product, conducted by only looking at their website and app store entries, it is attractive. The only significant negative I can see (aside from relying on the phone itself for processing power and speed) is that they don't offer comprehensive coverage of many lesser developed countries (e.g. the Balkans), only 'major transit routes'.

I have answered above,, smartphone processing power is perhaps 5 times greater than garmin. I enjoyed Balkan very much ,, came out of Rostov into Odessa ,, Melitopol first ,, great Ukraina ,, then to Albania,, via Romania,, Bulgaria ,,Macedonia ,, Sygic on my Galaxy 3 ,, was simply superb ,, turn bu turn ,, POS,, thousands of them ,, Croatia ,, SLovenia ,, Slovakia , Hungary ,, Poland ,, Austria , Italy ,, Germany , France,, Spain ,,,Luzumburg ,, Belgique ,, ah ,, miss it !
Not a single problem with Android and Sygic !

Would appreciate whatever answers you can provide.

Michael