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**Erik_G** · #**451** 4 Feb 2022

This with "return to route" instead of navigation instructions is because you are following a track. And not a route.

**Wheelie** · #**452** 5 Feb 2022

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik_G

I would not use my only phone for navigation.
It is to big risk that it get damage in case of accident.....

So even if I use a phone as GPS. It is a separate phone.
=> Still same amount of devices.

The phone needs a mounting that reduces vibrations, if the phone shall survive.
And a water proof cover top protect it from rain.

I think we all are aware that phones are less robust, and some less than others. But it really doesn't answer the questions above.

What I and many others are looking for is to be able to extend the use of the phone as a navigation device, not necessarily replace a GPS completely - to use one as primary and the other for backup - depending on circumstance (and on some trips not take the GPS at all). As such we are after some 30 pages more interested in learning about significant differences in software capabilities - as of where we stand today.

Most of us are aware of the hardware issues that still exist, and which puts limitations on phones. In my opinion "Heat Strokes" is the single most relevant vulnerabily (as the others are easily negated). The conditions for this symptom can be metvanywhere on the planet, but more frequently in hotter climates.

The question for most is no longer wether to use a phone for navigation or not - but rather to what extent , and under which surcumstances to do so or not . The question to many will then be how much it is justifiableto spend on a GPS (i.e. if they can make do with a phone and maybe even a 10-15 year old hand held)? The question becomes even more relevant when riding in a group. How many of the bikes riding together ought to have a top of the line GPS or any at all?

Here is a list of popular mobile navigation apps (Source sixt.com). In bold are the only ones on this list that is currently on my phone as they have shown most promise.

Google Maps
Waze
MapQuest
Maps.Me
Scout GPS
InRoute Route Planner
Apple Maps
MapFactor Navigator
OsmAnd
CoPilot GPS Navigation
TomTom GO Navigation
HERE WeGo Maps & Navigation
Gaia GPS
Karta GPS
Polaris GPS Navigation
Roadtrippers
Traffic Spotter
Sygic GPS Navigation & Maps
Glob
ETA Live Traffic Alert

I also have Avenza Maps, iOverlander, and several others that are relevant for navigation, but that are not proper motorcycle navigation apps per se.

Maps.Me vs MapFactor Navigator - I am yet to put either to the test IRL. I've only played around with the in the comforts of my home.

I can't see a single thing that Maps.Me can do that MapFactor Navigator shouldn't be able to do better. MapFactor Navigator can do so much more than Maps.Me in the way that it is far more customizable - including search, route preferences, and more. It also offers the option to purchase Tom Tom maps (but the free seems plenty good)

I don't trust the search on Maps.Me. I tried searching on the street address for the royal palace in Oslo, Norway (Drammensveien 1, Oslo). It is a good test as the road spans over several municipalities, and ends in another city bearing the same name as the road (Drammen). The search returns far too many idiotic results, and in a manner that is anything but intuitive. Also, it doesn't prioritize street names over all the community garbage entries - making it very difficult to both find and pick the correct address (it took me four attempts, and for a location I really know we'll). If you are not very familiar with where you are going (which is probably when you need a GPS in the first place), it is very easy to end up in a very different location than you intended - far, far off the mark.

What Maps.me does have going for it is a map view that is slightly better for offroad navigation. It is also easier to use over all. It seems as though both spps offer turn by turn navigation and route calculation across road and offroad paths.

If I was to ride offroad on a GPX route, I still think I would favor the Navigator over Maps.Me -even if the map perspective of the latter would be slightly better offroad. The main reason is all the other bits of customizable info I can get on the Navigator (all types of distances, times, elevations, speed, avg speed, etc).

To me, it looks as though MapFactor Navigator has the most to offer. Time will show when it comes to importing GPX how good either are.

As for Google maps, it is by far the best option if you just want to get someplace fast, but don't care about which route. It's when you want to take a very specific route that things become a real PITA. And offroad, forget about Google maps all together.

I have yet to try to import GPX files to Google Maps (if at all doable), but I assume I will loose any turn by turn instructions and/or route recalculation. When getting into this realm, it is probably better to get aquatinted with another app. If creating and sharing routes for Google maps can be done easily, it still has its place. Everybody has google maps - so it is a great way to share routes with others (for planning purposes, for riding together, or just sharing for caring).

What would you see as any significant shortcomings of Maps.Me or MapFactor Navigator - relative to a GPS? Set aside hardware robustness.

**Erik_G** · #**453** 5 Feb 2022

Quote from your post

"For most of the time I would prefer to have only one device to deal with (phone) and have a very good GPS for those times that the phone won't do."

That why I wrote that I would not use only one device. Even If a phone can do everything.

I would have one as GPS device. And one stored in a safer place.
To be able to call even after an accident.

**Wheelie** · #**454** 5 Feb 2022

And that my friend, is the better advice that we all should adhere to. Years back, there was only map, compass and roadbooks. It worked, it just isn't very practical. Having a GPS is in my opinion a must for any long adventures. For many shorter adventures though, caring for multiple devices outweighs it's benefits.

In any regard, wether your phone is your primary device, or your only device, or your backup - it is a good idea to have the best software for that phone. The question then becomes, which is best?

I had the chance to test MapFactor Navigatorbin real life today, albeit only a bit and for all point to point road travel only. It performed really well. I'm yet to test roues or GPX

**Jamie Z** · #**455** 6 Feb 2022

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelie

I had the chance to test MapFactor Navigatorbin real life today, albeit only a bit and for all point to point road travel only. It performed really well. I'm yet to test roues or GPX

I tried MapFactor today. Looks good, but it's very unintuitive.

I couldn't figure out how to make it route me somewhere. In fact I still don't know how to do it. Somehow I inadvertantly set it to route somewhere, and now I don't know how to turn off that route.

It's like there are a bunch of buttons missing. I see nowhere to simply route to a POI. And it doesn't look like there's any functionality for GPX files.

**Wheelie** · #**456** 7 Feb 2022

I can't get gpx neither opened or uploaded to neither maps.me (don't think it supports GPX, nor Map factor GOX, nor OSMand. I tried opening the file on the gpx viewer app, and it shows up perfect. It is a file found on the official TET site, do I assume the file is ok.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. Maybe android changed their app policies for storage? Maybe it is something with the file? Or maybe it is just me.

When trying to open the file, OSMand is the only one showing up as an alternative - but it doesn't work. Trying to import doesn't work for OSMand, and neither does saving the file to the folder recommend by Mapfactor.

Frustrated!!!

**Wheelie** · #**457** 7 Feb 2022

Mapfactor Navigator drains the battery fast as it runs in the background checking for positions regardless if it's in use or not, and doesn't turn off unless forced - which is a pain. Well for me anyways. It doesn't look very promising.

**Wheelie** · #**458** 8 Feb 2022

I came across this and thought it was worth sharing:

**Surfy** · #**459** 9 Feb 2022

Here is my updated list of Apps for travelling, with the detailed reason described - why and where are they useful on my international (road/offroad) trips...

Article:
https://vanlife.4x4tripping.com/2021...-2021-for.html

I use my iPhone or iPad as single navigation unit in the past 11 years, from africa, europe to south america. And I did never got lost.

But yes, I did use it in my 4x4, for bikers there is more stress on those units, if you mount them permanentely in the sun. More heat, more vibrations. But the list of Apps could be helpful, I guess.

Surfy

**Wheelie** · #**460** 9 Feb 2022

Thanks Surfy - good list!

Regarding DMD2 spp (video in my previous post above) - I'm simply blown away at the pace of development and how far they have come since I used it last summer!

It is not quite where I need it to be just yet, but very, very close! The Map View and the file Explorer in particular needs some more work - though it is already quite good. I was unable to upload a GPX file that has worked on other apps - and for this reason alone, I'm on the fence . Fortunately those items, and according to their website, are at the top of their development schedule - both close to completion.

I expect them to be "complete" for my navigation needs in just a few months. And then, they will have surpassed Garmin in so many ways that are important to me that it is only the hardware bit holding me back from completely dropping a Garmin.

The Carpe tablet, an insanely well thought through purpose built tablet for adventure motorcyclist, is simply better than anything else offered to bikers for navigation, and more. Combined with handlebar controls, OBD, speed sensors, air pressure sensors, 4G, and sooo much more, they are in a different league - and it is all built to go hand in hand with the awesome DMD2 app.

But, and it is a big but - it is a very complicated and time consuming install if you want the tablet - with little documentation made available as of yet (don't expect to be technically challenged and be able to install this yourself). On top of that, many bikes will require custom fabrication of brackets, etc - as few are available yet. It is also a pricey solution if you want all the Gizmos.

If you just want the app on a phone, it is free. I can highly recommend it.

My greatest concern is that it is a very small operation. Will they be able to keep updating it over time?

Despite all of the cons, I’m sooooo tempted to get one now already - it is so frickin cool!!!

----
Alternative
For a while I have considered the Montana 700i or 750i for it's inreach SOS capabilities and tracking feature (for safety). In the end I have decided against it. The main reason is that if I should get separated from the bike, the device will be on the bike and not my person. The second reason is that you can get a second hand, and hardly used GPS tracker with inreach for close to nothing. You can then afford a dedicated GPS with great features for overlanding, with plenty money left over - and be both safer and have more versatility. I therefore do not think the Montana with inteach is worth it's premium for this feature.

The Carpet tablet, although more expensive, I think soon will deliver far better "value" in the premium segment with so much greater capabilities.

I’ll be holding off any greater investments until I see where the DMD2 pluss hardware is at in 3-12 months (in particular regarding mounts). In the mean time I will keep on relying on my my phone in combination with my old trusted GPSMap 60csx, and old spot tracker.
-----
comms on your body is important
I think having a phone, or GPS tracker with SOS inreach - and on your person, is important for safety reasons. If you accidentally run off the road, with no one around to witness it, don't expect anyone to be able to notice you until way after the stench of your decomposing body floods the area - and maybe not even then. And, don't expect to be able to get to your bike if you are injured or if the bike went off a cliff or something.

Having both a GPS tracker and a phone is best, keeping one on one's person and the other on the bike. I prefer to have my phone on the bike - even though it is liable to get a heat stroke or vibrate to pieces. The main reason is because of DMD2, navigation, music, audio books, messages and calls - the phone is always in use it seems. If my phone breakes, a cheap replacement can be found in just about any decent sized town in the world (at least second hand). Heat strokes also doesn't happen to me all that often (only a handful of times the past ten years). It has never had any significant consequence - this as I carry p maps on long trips to unfamiliar places (except for the only time I didn’t, and had the phone suffered heat stroke after heat stroke, s heat stroke, and I had not bothered to replace the GPS's batteries). The other times, waiting for the phone to cool down to use the other phone features has never been of any great inconvenience.

On a final note. It is not that long ago when paper maps was what we all used for our go-to navigation solution - and many of us still use them to dome extent.

**Gpaws1968** · #**461** 4 Apr 2022

Quote:

Originally Posted by seouljoe

I contend ,, that Garmin in the past ,, using out dated software,, shoddy workmanship on the units,,mediocre after service and greedy propriety exercise of maps,, have enjoyed many years of monopolistic share of the market. We beat them by using OSM,, now new challenge is on the horizon.

With the advent of the smart phones, which is indeed getting smarter,,,provides many choices of free maps and online resources at our finger tips, without connecting usbs or using their exclusive software ,, can enjoy ,, what is out there on open ,, free and available, for any one. Garmin in general
is becoming less in demand and their financials will hurt as time progresses.

On that note ,, I think as we,, a special breed of riders,, who travel the globe ,, shoud discuss in ernest the merits of the new technology vs old ,,

Software ,,
Hardware ,,
Pros and cons ,,
User experiences ,,
Service problems ,,
The cost ,,

I use and have used Garmin ,, but I am totally committed to Smart Phones.
So you know where I stand.

Please feel free to offer us your insights.

I use my iPhone with the Rever App, I map it on the computer and download it on my phone and I can have access to the map anywhere. It has never let me down and you can also see you riding partners on your map.

**Grant Johnson** · #**462** 5 Apr 2022

I'm now experimenting with DMD2 on a Samsung Tab A Mini, a nice size for a bike, and cheap at only C$179! Mount it in an Otter Box - comparatively EXPENSIVE at $C79 and then figure out a mount. I use GaiaGPS for my off-road riding and like it well enough. It also works on DMD2, as do other apps.
We'll see...

**Erik_G** · #**463** 5 Apr 2022

I have an old Tablet that I do not use any more
=> Free
I used a "ball mount" that was supposed to be used with bolts. But I used super glue to attach the mount to the GPS.
Some cheap camera mount stuff from wish
Free OSMAND app for Android
(Most time I load GPX files to the tablet)

=> GPS 8-9" screen for few €

Works very well (at least until the rain comes).....