Chris

I have some suggested updates on the M5 piste. I don't have your email, do you want me to post the suggestions here? If not, please email me on tim.cullis *AT* infar.co.uk

Cheers
Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Hi Tim, may as well post them here so everyone sees them. I'll copy them onto the Sahara 2 updates page and a future reprint.

thanks

Chris

------------------
A M Handbook 5, Sahara Overland 2, dvds and desert tours

http://www.sahara-overland.com and http://www.adventure-motorcycling.com

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Chris

I did the M5 route in January 2006 on a BMW 1200GS.

Traffic: there was one local on a small motorbike (who'd run out of petrol).

Conditions: dry, sunny and cold. Snow from previous night in a few places on the track.

Duration: the description in the book of 'one day' wasn't helpful as we didn't know whether this meant a full summer day--we were in winter. In the event we took 5 hours plus two tea stops, filming and syphoning petrol!

Directions: as is often the case the beginning of the piste is very confusing. There's no GPS position in the book until 28km, and there's a multitude of tracks leading across the plain from Tinerhir. We obviously didn't follow the right one and didn't realise the village we could see in the distance was the one in the third instruction.

It would be better, therefore, if the first instruction in the guide reads, "towards a gravel plain and THE VILLAGE VISIBLE IN the hills beyond".

Cafes: there's a restaurant in Iknioun (km 54) at N31 10.274 W5 40.445
There's a cafe at the top of Tizi n'Tazazert (km 70) at N31 07.338 W5 46.324

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

I have often wanted a precise 'piste length' in time - but after doing the same piste a few times and noting the large difference in the time I have taken to do the piste (in the same vehicle, different year), I reckon its good to keep the piste time to rounded- off days. Occasional rains and their effect on the piste, corrugations, low vis, police/mil checkpoints all come and go so that it is very hard to pin an accurate time on piste.

As for the waypoints, I often prefer 2 or 3 way points in the first 5 km, then to let the way points spread out once the broad valleys, big plains etc do more of the steering. But then again villages and the narrow alleys that pistes start on do change too.

IMHO there's a huge difference between five hours and one day. In summer, five hours is about one third of a day. In winter it's about half. If a piste was described as five hours in normal conditions I think most people would realise they would need more time in adverse weather.

Other pistes in the book are described in terms of hours--M3 as three hours, M4 as two hours. What would you round these off to?

I've since learned a popular route is to start from Alnif, do the M4 going north, link via the main road to Tinerhir, the do the M5 going south, then link from Nekob via road back to Alnif. The consensus is that this is around 11 hours.

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Appreciate the clarification Tim. M5 should say "... half a day for a motorbike", as I mention in the last para on p.423.

Moroccan route details change more than any other country in the book but yours is only one of a couple of route updates I've ever been offered, so it's worth noting the date the piste was logged.

Any other route updates, always welcome ;-)

Ch

btw, the updates page is:
http://www.sahara-overland.com/typos

[This message has been edited by Chris Scott (edited 11 February 2006).]

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zmeagol:
[B]IMHO there's a huge difference between five hours and one day.
Point taken although in my old L/R 2A I'm always having to do corrections for what the average Tojo and KTM can do before breakfast.

Incidentally over December we took 5 days on the Mhamid-Foum Zgiud piste - which is marked up as the better part of a day in S-O. Turns out it was one of the best 5 days of the year though and most making it in a day will miss out on the dunes at Chigaga....

Yes. And no. I'd rather plan on a day .. and get out in 5 hours than plan on 5 hours .. and get out in a day. Rather have some free time to sit in the shade looking at a dune than pushing a vehicle for time.

As for the route in the book and what is on the ground when you get there .. well it is a 'guide'. And we all know that information changes over time. So use it as an indication of what to do, not an absolute of what to do?

Zmeagol - Thanks for the info. It takes me about a week to relax into the holiday, cease meeting some planed timetable. Rleax. Stop pushing mysewlf to do as much as possible. "As God wills"




[This message has been edited by Frank Warner (edited 15 February 2006).]

__________________
---
Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S

__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

ouch! hope you ducked on time Tim!!!

Hi Bertrand

Am I bothered what cage drivers think?

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Just a small observation from a newbie planning his first trip... Having bever undertaken something like this before, the prospect of heading into 'the unknown' is understandably quite daunting. I realise that this might provoke a snigger from some of the more hardened desert travellers on the board, but we all have to start somewhere and information such as that that Tim provided is very very welcome indeed. Sure I might be being a little anal in combing through Chris's excellent book and plotting the M routes on my Morocco map, but for someone like me whose previous experience of 'adventure motorcycling' is limited to Shoreditch and Hackney, trying to interpret information and translate it into a visualisation of what actually might be there can only be helped by first hand reports...

I'm also surprised that Chris has had so little feedback on the routes ...
Did I say I was anal ..? S.O., page 437 Oct 2005, route M6: Tagounite - Merzouga. Fuel availability Tagounite, *Tafraoute* and Remilia etc., Tafraoute's a bit further west, on M11 n'est ce pas?

I know I'm being an anorak - I'm going to polish my bike now lol...

Greg

__________________
I wish my wheelies were intentional...

>>>Tafraoute's a bit further west, on M11 n'est ce pas?

You had me going there for a minute but actually the village on this piste (@ KM 135) and the big town in the west share the same name. It is near 'Lac Maider' on the map - which it seems did not get updated along with the route description from 2003.

CS

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Doh ...

I was looking at the 800k Insight travel map and couldn't see Lac Maider either...

I think I need another map!

Greg

__________________
I wish my wheelies were intentional...

Hi Greg,

welcome to the world of African travel. I would hope that people wouldn't do someone down on the basis of inexperience, we all have to start somewhere and none of us are immune to saying or doing something stupid from time to time, sometimes even when we do have the knowledge to know better.

Would absolutely agree with you about the value of Chris' book, and as a relative newcomer myself find it incredibly useful, but use it for what it is, 'a guide, not a bible' (I think I'm quoting Chris right there, correct me if I'm wrong) and don't get all pedantic about it if a distance is slightly out or he has counted the wrong number of dogs you must pass before you turn off. Things change and part of the fun is the unexpected. If you want something that reads like a rally roadbook then this is the wrong game.

I hope it isn't too anal as I've spent several hours plotting the waypoints from chris' book, including finding an error, I think from memory on the M6 piste, which I posted somewhere on this site. That one was down to an error by the publishers I believe.

Enjoy you travels.

ps to Tim, don't worry, I've done my share of biking and got the rash to prove it!

Andy

Toyota H60x2
Landy101 ambie/camper
1968 Moggy minor traveller




[This message has been edited by moggy 1968 (edited 10 March 2006).]

__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014