We plan to drive with a 12m-bus from Belgium to Senegal in november/december 2003.
Especially the last 100 km before the Mauretanian border would be very difficult (or impossible with a bus?) In Mauretania through the banc d'arguin or with the train to Choum and then to Nouakchott?
Probably there are now and then passing trucks that could help us out?
Thanks for all advice!

"Especially the last 100 km before the Mauretanian border would be very difficult (or impossible with a bus?)" - no there is a good tarmac road all the way until the border area. Then there is 7kms crossing the border which is okay, some soft sand. Once in to Mauritania then possibly harder. Don't know about the train route and down. We went down through the parc and then the beach, would probably be a challenge in a bus. Overland trucks were finding it reasonably hard.

There is a nice example of a bus that didn't made it on the beach some 50 km north of NKT.
I don't know if you can put a bus on the train, check that before you go.

> "through the banc d'arguin or with the
> train to Choum and then to Nouakchott?"

I have heard of a 2WD route through the banc d'arguin parc, maybe this is the best way for you, I have not used it - also I heard they were building a road through or around the parc.

I have been North from Atar to Choum in a LR110 (Nov/02) & had minor difficulties descending an escarpment on what I believe was the main piste (although it was dark!), due to large steps and very tight bends - going the other way, up this escarpment, in the LR110 would have been difficult & in a bus impossible . Maybe somebody knows an easier way.

Hope this helps
Ian

A friend of mine drove the 2WD route last December with a mercedes O307 bus. he was accompanied by friends in two Mercedes 4X4 trucks. he got stuck 6-8 times but on two occasions he said he may not have gotten out without the help of the trucks.

I know of two other busses which have made the route, one was definitly accompanied by a truck the other I dont know.

The route up to Atar has a couple of tricky spots, it may be easier to stay on the plain instead of going up to Atar.

Mauritanian trucks may be able to help you but they will probably charge a small fortune for doing this.

Tried helping an overland truck that got stuck where the track from the parc goes onto the beach. Don't know what they had to pay to get pulled out in the end but another overland truck, our LR110 and 60 people couldn't get it out. The dumper truck that was offering to pull them out was suggesting $1000. Don't know what they paid in the end but think significant. If this has to be repeated several times then might add up. Ideally need to go with at least one truck. A bit hit and miss otherwise for getting through. Also bus wants to be in reasonable condition because if it is being hauled out by a truck, it can put alot of extra stress on the structure.

[This message has been edited by Toby2 (edited 13 May 2003).]

IMHO , it is absolutely impossible . I had done the atlantic route 6 weeks ago ..

The tracks from the moroccan border (guerguerat) to the Mauritanian side were difficult for peugeots , 505s , etc... Even 4x4s had some difficulties every now and then

Then . the 50 kms to nouathocht are impassable for vehicle this big. It is not only the soft sand spots , is that the bus would be bottoming all the way , as there are lots of "mini hills" . Also , I am not sure a bus "fits" into the wheel-marks of existing tracks .
2wd vehicles manage to drive to nouadibou by speeding before the sandy patches .. and launchings themselves against the sand pacth, and "most" of the times the car ends in the other side of the sandy patch ready to repeat the maniover. This can not be done with a bus.
From Nouadibou to nouackoct , I have not seen the 2wd route , but the "parc" route is definitely impossible for a Bus .
Surprisingly , 60 kms south of Nouahmar ,there 's the skeleton of a huge bus stranded in the beach. How did it get there ? I asked , and no one seemed to know .(Actually I saw also a brand new Mercedes E class slowly sinking into the sea , as the tides caught it!!) .

I can think of at least 10 or 20 spots where a bus couldnt make in the beach route , (the black big stones 60 km from nouatchock,for example?)
a big 4x4 truck can drive OVER the obstacles , a small car ... can sort over the obstacles ... a city bus can simply not cross some obstacles ... and as someone said .. when a rearwheel drive bus is stuck .. it will be stuck for ever . Do not rely on mauritanians for nothing , as they will charche a huge ammount of money for everything .
Enjoy

Thanks for all this interesting info, this is really very helpfull! If you would be living a bit closer, I would say, I buy you a in the pub!
So, apparently, to drive with a bus from to Dakar seems to be nearly impossible, what I thought indeed? (but didn't know that "help" would cost that much by trucks)
But Toby, you say that there is a tarmac road to the border (what I was very surprised off!), but Madrid_Capetown says that it is still a very rough track!
So, the only way to get there is being helped by an overlandtruck (travellers and no local Mauretanians that apparently asking a fortune) to get to Nouadhibou, and then the train to Choum.
Does anybody know about availability and prices?
And then from Choum to Atar and then to Nouakchott. And even this route is probably extremely hard with a bus (Mercedes 0305)?
Kevin says he knows of people who have done it with a bus. I heard from a Dutch motorist in Bamako feb 2000 of a Dutch bus that has driven the Atlantic route, but they were accompanied by a truck.
Thanks for your opinions/ comments on this!

Saw this topic on the site, very interesting. Knew it had to be you Luc (not that many people with crazy (but good!) ideas like this).
As I told you before it is hard but certainly not impossible. The bus that made in through in 2000 was a city bus totally rebuild in an enormous camper, this off course made in a lot heavier. It had the help of two trucks (fellow travellers whom they met along the way). I think at least one truck is essential. The border from the Mauritanian side up to Nouadhibou is difficult, but it really depends on which route you take, last December we did it with a 2 wd and up to Nouadhibou no problems at all, rocky underground with very little soft sand a German 207 Merc who was with us got stuck one time but this had more to do with the driver then with the underground. Continuing to Nouakchott a guide is very important! Make sure you get an experienced guide. Maloum (don’t know his last name, will look in my travel diary for this) at that time (2000) did a very good job. As for the beach, don’t drive all the way to Nouakchott, but take the truck route, which is very corrugated but it is your only option. It is difficult to get of the beach, definitely need a truck here (if you’re interested I can give you the waypoint later on) but ones on the truck piste, just take your time and you’re home free. It all just depends on how crazy you are and how much time you have.

Good luck with your decision,
Vincent

There is a good single lane tarmac road right the way to the fort at the Western Saharan side of the border. Its in good condition, we bombed down in at 80mph its not a problem. Once at the border "area" you have a 7km crossing through softsand with limited ability to move about because of the risk of landmines.

Your two key problems would be bottoming out and on the beach section, getting unstuck quickly. On alot of the ground down through the parc, its fairly flat, soft sand patches but not that big a problem. However once on the beach, if you get stuck, you have a very short period of time to get the vehicle free again (ie maybe 4 hours?) With a 4x4 there are other vehicles going past that could pull One lose, with a bus, there will be limited help available. Definitely need sandladders (plenty of them - ie not just 2 - overland trucks have about 10). Also need shovels. Ideally want to be travelling with a truck. However I disagree with previous comments that its not possible, I think it probably is. But then I have only driven a LR110 over it and not a bus so maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks guys for your usefull information.
We've come together with our group of 8 and we have decided not to drive the bus through Mauretania. The (financial) risk is a bit to high. If we would have 6 months, then we could leave and wait in Dakhla for travellers with a truck we could join. But as we only have 6 weeks, to drive over there and sell the bus we can't afford to wait several weeks to find the appropriate travellers with a truck. And being helped by Mauretanians would indeed probably cost a fortune (thanks for this tip!)
So, we thought to drive the bus to Marocco and sell it there, and then drive further with some cars, or hitchhike to Senegal. But it't very difficult for Europeans to sell vehicles in Marocco, also high taxes. Somebody any experience with selling cars in Marocco?
So, probably we'll go with some cars to Senegal.
Any advice wich cars are interesting to sell over there?

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If you wait 12 /24 months the tar strip from Nouachott/Nouadibu should be up and running .The market for cars in Dakar is quiet at the moment and seems to be wrapped up by French nationals who v been doing it for years , mercs sell v well in mauritania , and it is safer to be a foot passanger at Rosso and save yourself the INSURENCE MONEY!! OH YEA AND PAYING FOR THE AIR YOU BREATH . If you are coming back buy camels in Mauritania and sell them in morocco , you can make the odd e200 per
camel , and you wont need to pay 1000 bucks to get pulled out of the rising tide .

Re. selling in Morocco, AFAIK it can't be done, at least not with a profit.
Foreigners simply MUST bring their vehicle out of the country again, anything else would be very costly.
I was in Morocco last time in 2002, and all sellers were heading for further south.

Abt brands that sell in Mauri/Senegal/Gambia, read earlier postings in this forum, or read my page about car-dealing in Chris Scott's Sahara Overland book.
Basically everything Mercedes Diesel gives you good profit.

BTW, wise decision not to bring the bus!

Jan