I had a window (Defender) break (through heat!?) in 2002 crossing a running (30m) oued at Ideles. Got to Djanet without the window - not exactly a security problem in the meantime - and bought a sheet of perspex. Cut the it to shape of remaining window, fitted it to runners as a replacement and 'voila!' (even went up and down smoothly!!). Replaced it with glass in the UK.

Sam.

"I remember my last trips , it seems to me they are on the road all day long !"

I also have found this - forever promenading. they are.. but half bricks sounds worse than before - could be the Iraq thing

CS

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the road is fully open now.
if youre on a bike ... duck. something the size of half a brick missed Neils head by inches.
I used to ride straight at the kids and roost them on the way past but, while it scares them into dropping the stone and running away from me, it probably provokes them for others. the worst Ive seen was in Bordj El Haoues the other day ... 6 year olds with no understanding of the consequences, trying to hurl house bricks.
I dont like speeding through town but get through fast and be first through if riding with others

Heeey..
When there is a lot of kids with stones then stop your bike, remove your helmet at once - and SMILE!!

Don't worry with just a little bit practise it feels completely natural to smile to the locals. :-)) Don't make it unnecessary hard for them, yourself or the next traveller....

Ali Baba,

I take it you have not tried this technique in the villages we're talking about. It's not going to work.

The kids will expect hand-outs (as has happened in the past), when you don't give them the expected pens/money/sweets etc. they could (with reasonable disappointment) get angry and you are blocked in. If you do, they will expect more and more (there will be more and more kids) and you will make the problem worse for yourself and those following.

Unfortunately, it's same sort of problem you find in all places on tourist 'through-routes'.

I am sure that the majority of independant travellers are masters of being friendly and correct with the local population but it's not a perfect world. Sometimes the ideal is not the best course of action.

Sam.

Sam,
You are partly right, I haven’t been in ALL the villages you are talking about. I did only go the villages at A5, Djanet-Ideles, Ideles-Tam and Tam-Arlit. Found fewer kids with stones there then in Chad and Ethiopia.

After more then 50.000 km in Africa on a bike I have never had problems with the locals that couldn’t be solved with a smile. But I have heard all kinds off stories from other travelers, (mostly) in 4x4.
As a rule people don’t hit or throw stones at smiling people, it’s more likely that they throw stones if they feel insecure, angry or disappointed. Smiling is the best cure I know, works in Europe too :-))

Most people understand (or you can make them understand) that you can’t have unlimited hand-outs driving on a bike, and therefore they will not be too disappointed.

The way travelers are treated by locals is often based on the behavior of previous travelers. You say “the majority of independant travellers are masters of being friendly and correct with the local population”. Well, I guess I have had bad luck then or maybe it depends on the definition of “correct”?

I think the problems would be reduced if:
-Travelers stopped giving hand-outs directly to local people. (Educate beggars are not our job anyway)
-Don’t high-speed through villages leaving nothing but a cloud of dust and maybe some dead chickens.
-Travelers tried to understand and talk to the local-people.

Hmmm, how to behave when we are travelling doesn’t seem to be a big topic in this forum. I don’t find it strange but I do find it sad...

Happy travels
AliBaba

Ali Baba,

At the risk of pushing a point, you haven't actually been to ANY of the villages we're talking about.

I agree with your points, but I'm not sure the situation on this particular stretch in the north is salvageable - only (max) 20% of the tourists passing through (and there are A LOT) read this forum. I will not be stopping to chat next time I go through - by stopping, you risk a lot more than a broken window or dented wing.

There are exceptions to every 'rule', let us know how you get on when you do this route!

Sam.


PS the problem is exacerbated because of proximity to the border. People are wanting to get into Tunisia, or as far into Algeria as possible (the less time in the north, the better). Stopping at every village (and there are a good 20 or so) takes time. We don't live in an ideal world - it's a reason, not an excuse.

Sam,
Sorry I thought you were talking about the A5, A6 and A10 area, cant find any place-names connected to the stone-throwing. After all you said this was a problem “in all places on tourist 'through-routes'” so I can’t see your problem here when I did A5 (A6 and A10 are hard for unsupported bikes) and a lot of tourist-routes?

Maybe you were talking about the area between Tunis and Touggort? If so I stopped there as well...


Personally I have never understood that people go to places where they don’t dare to get out off the car and talk to local-people. But heeey, it’s a free world....
Time might be an issue, but at what cost? None of us would have liked to live at a rally-field, for them the situation is even worse.

Anyway, I wrote the post to focus on the fact that the treatment we get from the local people usually is based on the way we treat them.

Happy travels
AliBaba

To Sam :

"Got to Djanet without the window "

Without a window , OK but without a windscreen ? ( Parebrise in French )
And in Djanet , is possible to buy that ?

What is perpex ?
I prefer to buy it in Europe ( if it is possible )

Thanks for your responses !!

RORO

For a Defender, polycarbonate windows are a good option. They scratch (so not good for windscreen), but it is VERY hard to break them, even with a heavy hammer. My parents had them fitted to their Land Rover. I would like to where to get them from, though!

For the wind-screen, I was thinking of mounting a fold-down outer screen with an in-cab cable-release. I would hate to travel with it down all the time, but if you see kids about to throw stones, or get into one of those scary situations with some crazy truck-driver overtaking you on a stony verge, you could let it flip down, until it's safe to get out and clip it back up again.

It's easier for me to do this because I have a body-overhang over the cab (a Luton, I suppose).

Ali Baba, I quite agree qith your sentiment - being friendly is generally the best way of handling it. But you need a strategy for handling it when things are genuinely nasty.

Michael...

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Are we really so scared that we're building pantsered vehicles to travel in the Sahara?

Is it wise to go to those places where you think you can't travel safeley trough without a pantsered car?

if pantsered means reinforced then I'll stick with riding a bike a relying on dodging the missiles while trying to keep on the good side of the locals.

I was chatting with a great guy in Djanet about the problem of stone throwing. I've never had trouble in Djanet, but, as I said above, I was terrorised by 6 year-olds with house-bricks in Bordj El Haoues. Nadir's view is that the "local" nomads have been herded into towns and told to live in houses, but not been told how to behave. they're not used to travelling at speed and they don't understand the damage that a rock will do to a car, bike or, worst (IMHO), person. Nadir would agree that education is the key, but stopping to smile, chat, educate makes you a slow target when you set off: both Neil and Martin were buised by rocks as we rode away from a seemingly smiley, friendly chat.

frankly, it puts the willies up me to ride through some villages ... I prefer precipitous mountain passes and feche-feche where the rocks lie in wait rather than, potentially, hit you at head height at 50kmh.

Whooooooooooooooooah!!

Can others who have driven through these and other areas confirm that this is a very minor problem, confined to a few small areas!

Anyone still unsure, though, should look at : http://www.model-policecars.co.uk/help.htm - go to the bottom of the page!!


Don't worry about it, you'll be fine! (95+% probability).

Replying to 'Roro', perspex is a trade name for clear plastic sheet (about 6mm thick). The same could have been used to temporarily replace a broken windscreen.

Sam.

you're right, Sam. I am giving a bad impression of a few turbulent villages. its not funny being a target, but I've only been hit once out of 15-20 projectiles that I've SEEN in 13,000km. I do, however, keep the speed down so stuff will hurt less!

Im looking for advanture, so I like to be hited by brick by 6 years old Being a brick target is better then being a sniper target.
OK, seriously:
It will be my first time down there. I see everybody is having his own solution, but as I see the best is to smile and give sweets to the kids. They will get what they want, and you will get what you want(peace)
In Europe you pay toll in Algeria jou pay with sweets. It is fair.