I want to change my 110 hard top springs to heavier duty ones, to increase ground clearance over dune crests, to avoid bumping the rear tank, and stiffen it up generally. I would like to stick to genuine parts. I understand the normal procedure is to fit dual coils from a 130 to the rear, and 110 heavy duty rear type (i.e. 110 uk spec hardtop rear springs) to the front. What about the shocks - leave as standard? Last year on the standard 110 hard top springs it was ok, but ground clearance with a load was not ideal, and it swayed about a bit.

It is normal that fully loaden 90/110 need stronger springs in the rear, except were HD ones are fitted. But don't takt too hard ones!

Stronger Springs meens different dampers - stronger "pull" dampening at least. Std. one will imho not be able to controll the increased spring forces. Very unsafe driving on road and fast driven tracks will be the consequence.

Search specialist advice. A direction to look for: LR dampers used for 130 HD or military "Wolf" suspension.

The strongest LR you will find as far as I know are the Wolf HD (rear): STC3087 (ANR3538?) I use this ones at the rear of my RR.
Don't know part #for the front.

Bye,Yves

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 15 November 2002).]

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Yves

Hi

Yves advice sounds good to me - the other choice I would look at are Old Man Emu's.

Cheers

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ChrisC

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ChrisC

and it swayed about a bit.[/B][/QUOTE]

Anti roll bar can make a difference. Cheap if you find a County that's being broken

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http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/andypackham
http://www.youtube.com/user/yahyajammeh

I know you want to stick to Genuine Parts, but Scorpion Racing in London seem to know what they are talking about, and can supply just about anything you need in the way of springs and shocks.

Can you really put 110 hard top rear springs on the front? I've got my old ones sat at home, wondering whether I should put them in...

110 rear springs are larger diameter than any other landrover coil spring, so will not fit on the front. Heavy duty 110 front springs are the same as standard 90 rears (NRC9448 and NRC9449). I have to say that if your current rear springs are genuine NRC6904 - red + green stripe and NRC 6389 - red + red stripe, and are in good condition and you are finding the back sagging a lot, I would suggest that fitting even heavier duty suspension to cope, would imply that the vehicle is overloaded. Do you have a heavy roof load? This will greatly increase the 'sway'. Is there no way that you could lighten the load you are carrying?

Hi,

Here the data of rear HD spring:
RED/GREEN
NRC6904
330lbs
6.5
15.6"
L/R-DEF110HD

They seem allready very stront to me, should be ok if the truck is not overloaded.

BYe, Yves

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Yves

Hello Andrew,

I'm back from my "field testing" trip to Morocco, and I am now also thinking about suspension for my vehicle.

Mine is a Defender 2000 year model, orginally a 110 S/W, but I managed to get a "Rest of World" spec vehicle. Unlike European vehicles, they still have a 300TDi option. I had the vehicle converted to 6x6, extending the chassis to a 150" total wheelbase. Both rear axles are Defender 90 axles, on 110 Hi-cap springs. I fitted standard length Bilstein dampers all round, including steering. Unladen, in a chassis/cab configration, the vehicle felt like it didn't HAVE any springs!

On this trip, our all-up weight was a bit over 4 tonnes - comfortably within the design spec, but it's a little too soft on the springs for my liking. It is nowhere near the bump-stops, but it does tend to sway a bit much, especially when going through roundabouts! (We store nothing on the roof, but the heavy load still has huge inertia, so the momentum rolls the body on the springs when there is a change of direction. The left-right-left combination of a small roundabout needs to be taken very slowly).

So... I am thinking of heavier springs, or anti-sway bars, or more damping.

The trouble with heavier springs is that they will reduce the effective axle articulation, which was one of the reasons for using a Land Rover in the first place. Also, I am worried that both the sprung and the unsprung parts of the vehicle will take more of hammering if I make the springs too hard. I am definitely going for H/D springs at the front, though, as I have a (lightweight) winch, bush-bar, H/D bumper, and a Luton-like cab overhang.

I dont' know if more damping will have any effect. My problem is long, comparatively slow movements of the suspension, not quick bounces. Any thoughts on this?

Anti-sway bars will also reduce the axle articulation. However, I might be able to make the ends detachable with some kind of quick-release mechanism - I have seen this done on other vehicles. This will probably be my first attmept at a solution. If standard anti-sway bars solve the body roll, then I will figure out a way to disconnect them when we are in deepest darkest, and we need the full supension capabilities.

From the way you describe your problem, it is also about excessive sway, rather than the springs simply being inadequate, so I think you face similar decisions. I agree with Diff's post, though - beware of overloading your vehicle, even if you solve the swaying issue.

Not much useful info in this post, I am afraid, but I'll post the results of any modifications I make - and keep a look-out for anyone else's experiences.

Cheers for now,

Michael...

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Michael & Sandy
http://www.expeditionoverland.com

I wouldn’t disconnect the sway bar on such a heavy vehicle. The body roll when crossing steep terrain, even at slow speed, will be exaggerated by the extra weight of the vehicle. In my opinion either go for softer springs for more articulation but sacrificing load carrying capacity and maybe stability, or try to live with it.

Another option is to install softer springs and assisted air springs. These are air bags that install between the chassis and the axle and are inflated with a small electric compressor to act as spring. The beauty of these things is that they’re adjustable from inside the cab, so you can harden or soften he suspension while driving to your heart’s content. They’re not very expensive and worth every penny. These things work and are so good that I’ll be installing them exclusively (no springs) on my next project vehicle. If installed properly they will prove to be very reliable. They are used as the only springing mechanism on new 18-wheelers, busses and even some trains.

If you insist on modify the sway bar, then why not soften its effect a bit rather then disconnecting it completely. You can achieve this by reducing the size of the horizontal link. The smaller the link the softer the anti sway effect. Do this by drilling newer attachment points in the horizontal link and when needed move the link between these points. It would be best if you build a new sway bar with this feature in mind and maybe some sort or quick connect disconnect mechanism to make the changes quickly.

Also the original rubber bushings of the sway bar on all production cars deflect under load and cause the vehicle to be somewhat loose. They should be replaced with polyurethane bushings. This makes a big difference in handling. For that matter I would change all the vehicle bushings to polyurethane except the one that holds the control arm to the chassis. Polyurethane tends to fail prematurely in location since it’s not designed to twist so much with such a small bushing thickness. Everywhere else on the vehicle it’s great.


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A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.

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A.B.
OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.

I have a 110 with rapier rear springs fitted on the rear and the original rear springs moved up front. The vehicle also has an anti roll bars fitted front and rear, and a metal bash plate under the fuel tank. For shocks I have used DeCarbon and Old Man Emu both of which have been satifactory. OME are perhaps a little more robust.

The Rapier helper springs and anti-roll bars make for a great expedition set-up if you are likely to be carrying a large payload as handling (cornering) is greatly improved.

However the downside is that the set-up is fairly stiff and a little unforgiving when driving in dunes and you can end up get cross-axled. I for one dont think you want too stiff a set-up for dunes and you certainly want to do all you can to shed weight you can before beefing up your suspension.

As an experiement, I intend removing the anti-roll bars to increase the axle articulation and see what effect this has.

I also would not advise lifting the suspension as stability would be compromised which would be undesirable when traversing a dune face or similar.

So you CAN put 110 rear springs on the front?

Re: rear springs up-front on a 110.

I did not personally do the work but the garage (Wooders 4x4 - Clopton Suffolk) said that is what had been done.

I have HD 130 coils (twinned at the back) and shocks on a 110. Works perfectly. Also, because it is a standard set-up on 130HD, easy to find/fit/replace etc. etc.

Sam.

Thanks for all the replies - I found that the chassis of my 110 was constantly grounding on top of steeply angled dunes. Looking at the photos afterward it is clear that the deep chassis members are the problem. The weight carried was about 500kg evenly distributed. The rear did not sag, but the whole suspension was well compressed although not excessively so. The set up was standard 110 hard top springs/shocks. It was
clear that the other vehicles in the group, who did not have such deep chassis members did not have this problem. Some had taller (OME) springs, others did not. A surplus of engine power seemed to help poor ground clearance with the Toyo Colorado in the group. As I don't want to fiddle with the powerplant I have shed nearly 200 kg, and thought that raising the springs 2 inches or less or fitting slightly stiffer springs that wouldn't compress so readiily, would bring the ramp break over angle in line with everyone else in the group. OME seem to be the easiest to find out the details on, but I am also interested to know just what the springs and shocks (and part numbers/colour codes) are that are fitted to
1. Std 110 Hard top
2. Standard 130
3. Rest of world spec 110 hard top

Short of asking the local main dealer , is there a web site with this information? I know it's boring but it would be a great help to know.

Thanks

Andrew



[This message has been edited by Andrew Baker (edited 18 November 2002).]

i know it has been mentioned before but why not give scorpion racing at kings cross a call or better still take your vehicle and let colin have a look at it.
i had similar problems last time in morrocco and came back wanting to sort this problem out. i ended up with lifted springs which when loaded up sits nicely with 5"+ clearance between axle and bump stops. this is coupled with de carbons all round and steering damper.
total cost having it fitted incl polybush kit and a mot was about £900. but now i feel it was worth it.
...jack