Many thanks for the info Chris and Kevin. Will do some hard thinking over next few days :-) Can you get Alg and Niger visas in Burkina or would we have to get them before leaving home? Do you need a carnet? Also, what is the longest stage between fuel stops on the Niger Alg route. Thank you for the offer of derv Chris but we still run our ambulance tank :-) on a V8. We can carry 300 litres petrol + a once only reserve of 90 litres lpg. Road mpg is about 12. and I have been assuming about 7-8mpg (2.5 km/l ) off road so the range, excluding reserve, would be about 750 km. Tyres will be Michelin XCL's, same tread as XL's. Not the best choice for the desert but I had a new set and thought that they may be useful in WA in the rainy season.

Kevin,

thanks for the info.

-If you are in a group the piste from Chinguetti/Atar to Tidjika is not that difficult and incredibly beautiful.

Do you have any waypoints on that piste?
How long does it takes by 4WD? What about refuelling and water?

Kar El.

Yep José,

What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
Any suggestions about piste in Senegal? We have to reach Bansang in The Gambia eventually?

Kar El.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by José Brito:
Hi Karel,

I've just returned from Senegal. All the information stated by Kevin is true. Be aware that, in July, the piste to Diama may not be practible at all. I've catched a day's rain and it was allready too muddy in some sections.
Also police and customs at Diama are rough and all try to get money from you. But even so I would prefer it, instead of Rosso.

If you need more informations drop a line

Good travel,
José <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mal,
>Can you get Alg and Niger visas in Burkina or would we have to get them before leaving home?
Dont know, Niger in Ouaga and Alg in Niamey or Agadez, I guess. Someone else will know

>Do you need a carnet?
Of course not (RTFM ;-) that's why Sahara is great! (easy laisser p. in Niger)

Crikey, 300 litres for 750 km!
That will do you Tam Djanet (fuel at Ideles too), or Arlit Tam. Plus lpg.

I think you'll be out before the Wet wont you? Anyway, its tarmac up to Agadez.

CS

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

No I don't have a GPS so I don't have those waypoint things. If you can read a bit of German I understand that "Durch Afrika" by Touring Club Suisse/Klaus Därr has them.
How long? If you floor it you can do it in 18 hours, we took it easy and took seven days. For fuel you fill up in Atar (Chinquetti has run out of diesel a few times), and if you are lucky Tidjika will have diesel too, though I wouldn't really bet on it. For water I would take enough for the whole route, About 130km south of Chinguetti there is a small village, there is also a small oasis or two on the way but I would only use the water as a last resort.

In Diama the official charges are as follows,
Mauritanian side UM1,000 for a car, paid to customs, Senegalise side supposedly CFA4,200 toll to cross the dam and CFA2,500 for the customs for the laissez-paisser or to have your carnet stamped. This CFA2,500 is then CFA5,000 at evening time or weekends.

The problem with Diama is that it used to be the main crossing point for car dealers but things have changed. If you enter Senegal without a carnet the cars details are written into your passport. The old trick was that if you passed Diama and paid anything from CFA5,000 to CFA20,000 they would not write the details in your passport, meaning that you could sell the car take your money and run. (Normally you have to accompany the buyer to customs where he either pays the customs or leaves some kind of guarantee). This practise has now ceased due to the anti corruption drive of the new President, Abdoulaye Wade. However the customs officials at the border are not prepared to give up their nice little earner that easy and dream up all sorts of gimmicks, fees, charges etc to make you pay up. They have been known to get very aggressive if you refuse to pay and most people end out paying CFA5,000 to CFA10,000 per car to get through. I suppose if you are in a large group your chances are better and you may end up paying nothing at all. Maybe the situation will improve in the future but at the moment it's a pretty nasty intro to a great country. Don't panic though, cold is available on tap in St Louis only 30 minutes drive away.

Malcolm

If you leave Mauritania it was possible to leave via a town called Selibabi/Salibal(?) and on arrival in Mali in Aourou (spelling?) or in Yelimane.(August 2001). If you are passing Konkassa(customs) you don't pass through Selibali but on the way to Kayes you do pass Aourou.

Yo Kevin or José,

any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway??

Kar El

Never done it. I know that it's possible but there are two stretches of dunes several kilometres long. As you have to stay very near the tracks because of mines I would think that it is not good because sand tends to pile up near the tracks ( this is definitly so up to Km47-50 which is where we usually leave to do the normal route. The only reliable people who I know who did it were in 4WD and said they spent most of their time in high first and second gear. I understand that after Km 50 you should stay south of the tracks because of mines, but don't take my word for it because as I said I've never done it. I've taken the train a couple of times it costs about UM12,500 with another 1-2,000 to tie it down, but it seems pointless taking it if you have a 4WD. The drive from Choum to Atar is also really worth it, so to is Zouerat and the area around it, but the piste is not that easy.

Yo everyone,

is there anyone out there who did the railway track from Nouadhibou to Choum by 4WD?
Any info is welcome.

Kar El

Hi Kar El,

>What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
I've crossed at Diama, twice this January. In Mauritania the prices were: 500UM - Municipal tax of N'Diago; 2000UM - police tax to get each passport stamped; 1000UM - Duane tax for each car.
Once you cross the barrage, the Senegalaise side takes: 4000CFA - toll for crossing the barrage; 5000CFA - police tax to get each passport stamped (building on your right); 5000CFA - Duane tax for each car (building on your left).
I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

>Any suggestions about piste in Senegal?
Careful with the mud, if you fall off the piste into the sideways, then it will be very difficult to get your car back on. If there is no rain, and the soil is dry, then simply enjoy the Dwiling Natural Park, that you are crossing, with hundreds of flamingos, herons, sea-gulls, cormorants, fish-eagles, monitor lizards, etc, etc....

>any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway?
Did it this January. You can do it in day, if you leave Nouadhibou before 6:00 AM, and push it the all day. Or you can do it in 2 days without much stress.
Recommendations - keep south of the railway, because potentially there are mines to the north; don't drive too close to the railway, due to the garbage, bits of iron, glass, etc..; I'll hardly need 4WD, depress tyres accordingly, speed and momentum should do the trick; In the more sandy sections, you can jump to the railway and drive on it, but be extremely careful with the trains. I drove a Nissan Patrol, and we didn’t had any problem.

Cheers,
José

__________________
Desert Crocodiles of Mauritania: http://cibio.up.pt/crocodilos/en

Yo José,

thanks for the info.

>I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

José, do you have up to date info about the prices for insurance (and possible passport stamping)for a 4WD in Morocco, Mauritania ; since your recent journey over there?

After the sand of Mauritania we would like some mud on the way to Bansang (The Gambia) ; any nice pistes in Senegal you know of?

Kar El


BTW (in Belgium this means VAT) : are you the guy behind "no way José"??

>Just bolt them together end to end and drive straight at it.
That many Landies can do anything.

After desert driving ; there are no more bolts left in a Landie. Can anyone help me!!!!

Kar El

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by José Brito:
Hi Kar El,

>What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
I've crossed at Diama, twice this January. In Mauritania the prices were: 500UM - Municipal tax of N'Diago; 2000UM - police tax to get each passport stamped; 1000UM - Duane tax for each car.
Once you cross the barrage, the Senegalaise side takes: 4000CFA - toll for crossing the barrage; 5000CFA - police tax to get each passport stamped (building on your right); 5000CFA - Duane tax for each car (building on your left).
I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

>Any suggestions about piste in Senegal?
Careful with the mud, if you fall off the piste into the sideways, then it will be very difficult to get your car back on. If there is no rain, and the soil is dry, then simply enjoy the Dwiling Natural Park, that you are crossing, with hundreds of flamingos, herons, sea-gulls, cormorants, fish-eagles, monitor lizards, etc, etc....

>any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway?
Did it this January. You can do it in day, if you leave Nouadhibou before 6:00 AM, and push it the all day. Or you can do it in 2 days without much stress.
Recommendations - keep south of the railway, because potentially there are mines to the north; don't drive too close to the railway, due to the garbage, bits of iron, glass, etc..; I'll hardly need 4WD, depress tyres accordingly, speed and momentum should do the trick; In the more sandy sections, you can jump to the railway and drive on it, but be extremely careful with the trains. I drove a Nissan Patrol, and we didn’t had any problem.

Cheers,
José<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi José

This coming year, I would like to drive down
to Saint-Louis in Sénégal as last year, I stopped in Rosso and drove along the track to
Bogue.

First, could you tell me if it is possible to
go back from Sénégal to Mauritania by crossing the dam in Diama as I have just an
entry to Mauritania on my visa. How did you
manage to handle the case. Is it possible on
you way back to buy a visa at the border or
do you need a multiple entry visa and where
can you get it in Mauritania.

Moreover, have you got some useful waypoints of your route of natural park reserve in Sénégal?

Thanks in advance for answering the above-mentioned.

Regards

Jean-Paul

Hi all,

To Kar El
>do you have up to date info about the prices for insurance (and possible passport stamping)for a 4WD in Morocco, Mauritania
My European insurance company covers Morocco and Tunisia, so I don't have info for Morocco. For Mauritania, I've paid in Nouadhibou about 22 Euros for 8 days, and in Rosso about 16 Euros for 6 days. The car was a Nissan Patrol with 9 places.

>any nice pistes in Senegal you know of?
The only real piste I've done (besides the ones inside Niokolo-Badiar National Park) connects Tambacounda with Matam. It has roughly 200kms, and cuts through the Ferlo Animal Reserve. Very scenic, the people in the villages were the most friendly I've ever encounter. It was a truly wonderful experience. I don't have the GPS waypoints, but with the IGN map and asking around in the villages you'll manage to do it in a long day, or in two relaxed days. Only an advice - in July / August the wet season will be peaking. I reckon the piste will be full of mud. With a 2 day mild rain this January it was already getting too soft, so expect additional difficulties in July.

>are you the guy behind "no way José"??
Hope not !!

To JPC
>Is it possible on you way back to buy a visa at the border or do you need a multiple entry visa.
I got my visa at the Mauritanean consulate in Lisbon, before the trip. It cost 30 Euros, valid for 1 month with unlimited entries. So I didn't had visa problems during the trip.

>have you got some useful waypoints of your route of natural park reserve in Sénégal?
Sorry, but no. The natural areas I visited didn't presented much difficulties. The Saloum Delta Natural Park you'll visit by boat (pirogue); in the Niokolo-Badiar NP you can buy the park guidebook, with a detailed map (besides it has so much vegetation that you can't leave the piste to wonder off); and in the Ferlo Reserve (see above) the IGN map and asking for directions in he villages is quite enough.

Good luck,
José

__________________
Desert Crocodiles of Mauritania: http://cibio.up.pt/crocodilos/en

> After desert driving ; there are no more bolts left in a Landie. Can anyone help me!!!!

You should condition your Landie prior to taking it into the desert by leaving it out in the rain for at least six months so that the nuts and bolts rust together. Seriously, I'm not joking.

Don't know if this works for TLCs.