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29 Dec 2008
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Almeria, Andalucia
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At a slight tangent from a fascinating thread..
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbekkerh
Most people in authority have a healthy respect for the media, which could be used to our advantage.
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It depends where you are, and who you're dealing with.
In 2006 I was stopped at a checkpoint outside a closed city close to Murmansk. There'd been no indication whatsoever that non-Russians weren't allowed on the road. Indeed, it was marked on the crappy map supplied by the tourist board as being of special interest to tourists.
Most of the 26 (!!) men in uniform who were involved in questioning me, checking documents, faxing Moscow, admiring the bike and generally wanting to be seen to be concerned, were friendly in the end. Their time was being wasted as much as mine, as Sunday afternoon became Sunday evening, their dinners were being ruined and their vodka being drunk by someone else.
But one verrry scary man in a long black overcoat kept asking questions, and spent a long time looking at my helmet-cam attachment. Velcro isn't very James Bond, but he was deeply suspicious. If I'd had any paperwork that day indicating that I've worked as a journalist*, I'm convinced he would have had me arrested.
Instead, the remainder of the 26 eventually conceded that a) I wasn't going to pay a bribe to get away and b) I had done nothing wrong, so they let me go.. though they didn't let me take their photo as a souvenir. That was a shame. We'd become good friends.
--Mike
*Ex-football journalist. But try telling that to the KGB!
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29 Dec 2008
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 960
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I am upset and deeply ashamed
PaddyT, I am upset and deeply ashamed. The Yuma Officer was very very wrong to treat you the way he did. Maybe this will help you and others... Here are several personal observations regarding the police. This was posted long ago, but I believe relevant here and now.
My thoughts regarding the existence of bad, corrupt
police that not only instigate crime but commit crimes
themselves mirror my thoughts regarding
humanity in general.
Now, in order to understand the police one must
understand the main function of the police, which is
to prevent or stop things from happening. .
Therefore, after a while as a police officer who is
repetitively preventing or stopping things, surrounded
by other police officers who are stopping things too,
he or she if not already having been selected by the
police application procedures as a stopper, becomes a
stopper.
Society needs, as part of its control responsibily,
stoppers.
I have successfully avoided several speeding tickets
by simply sitting in the car, or on my bike, with bowed head and
saying to the police officer now standing beside me...,
"we really need to stop speeders, don't we"
Immediately their was such affinity and apparent
sharing of reality the officer would not or could
not give me a ticket. I have passed this on to many
others and all who have tried it, have confirmed my
results.
Unfortunately, some police, (cultures designated
stoppers) have also been involved in situations where
their very life depended on their ability of stopping
something from happening. This confirms the fact to
them that their very life depends on their ability to
stop things.
I believe, and this is validated by actual statistics
of police corruption, much goes unreported, that
between 5 and 6% of US police are corrupt and
committing crimes against society. This group of bad
police contaminate and recruit from the other 15% or
so of the police who do not fall into the 80% I
believe are good people doing a tough job to the best
of their ability.
Unfortunately, the best "stoppers" are the ones who
get promoted and assume the leadership over large
groups of other police. Now remember, police in
general are not starters nor changers, just look at
the stats on any activity started and run by police
like Project DARE which has, by carefully weighted
scientific statistics created more drug use than what
would have been expected if the program did not exist.
This is fact. Or the comical failures of almost every
police run community event, they can't even have their
own athletic leagues or police balls (social events)
picnics etc...because they are all trying to stop
these things from happening. I am not inventing this,
several reputable books have been written on this very
topic.
I am not sure we can even expect our police to be the
innovative starters and changers of societal behavior,
but if there is anything, even things beneficial
starting or even beneficial changings occuring in a
community you can expect the police to be right on
the scene to stop it. The court systems also operate as stoppers of behavior, not starters of good behavior nor changers of society for the better.
So to directly answer your question for both North
America and South America I believe about 5% of the police
are corrupt and committing crimes against society and
that about 15% are in some way involved by the crime
of omission (not reporting the bad police) or minimal
participation in the commission of crimes against
society, and 80% are good men and woman trying to do
what is right.
One might say 80% really want to help others survive.
I am, in the final analysis a starter of projects and
a changer and yes, if I have to I can stop things too,
so by nature I have very little in common with the
police, and represent a threat to them once they get
to know me.
This might be a good time to point out that I do agree
that every culture needs stoppers, This is an
unfortunate reality that has been created by a
relatively few really bad people. And, look what
happened to Senator Robert Kennedy because, as United
States Attorney General, he was prosecuting the
mafia/police connections in various cities throughout
North America. There is a wealth of documentation
about this existing corrupt connection available, I
have no need to be creative here.
__________________
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www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina
Last edited by xfiltrate; 29 Dec 2008 at 13:36.
Reason: minor revisions from original post
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30 Dec 2008
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 100
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Contrary to what some have posted, events like the one you describe happen all over the world and it is just a part of traveling. I have had several similar experiences at some border crossings:
1. The Canadian border official that was sure that I had a weapon just because my birthplace was Texas in my passport. After hours of searching he finally admitted there were no weapons on the bike. Talk about xenophobic. (Pigeon River Border Crossing, Minnesota/Ontario)
2. The Canadian border official that made me empty my earplug container because I surely have mace hidden in there. After examining my earplugs and the container I was finally allowed to pass. (Tolstoi Border Crossing, Minnesota/Manitoba)
3. The German official that told me I must have a German driver's license to operate a bike in Germany. Then I was told that to receive a German license I must be angemeldet (registered as a resident) in Germany. A real Catch-22. (somewhere on the autobahn in Rhineland/Pfalz)
4. The British official that required I give them my entire professional resume (including colleges and degrees) so that the British government could make sure I did not seek employment while touring the country. (Harwich ferry port)
These are just the ones that stick out. There have been many others in my travels.
Folks that blame this kind of behavior on the US government, people, etc. have probably never traveled outside the country. Do what I do with my "officialdom stories". Relax, open a brew, and make the story a little more dramatic each time you tell it around a campfire.
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2 Jan 2009
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colchester, UK
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All funny stuff
But I agree with the warning about journalists above - lots of countries have a very keen dislike of journalists. That can even get you in trouble in parts of Malaysia, which is otherwise a pretty easy place to travel in - they hate 'eco / green' type stories making them look bad, and those journalists will try to look like tourists. Plus, in many countries, you declared your occupation on an immigration form - if you later make it look like you lied to immigration you could be inviting a world of trouble.....
Us Brits can have a rather soft and cuddly view of the police, and that can lead you to underestimate foreign cops. American cops won't hesitate to get very physical if you piss them off, whereas you would have to be pretty stupid to get a reaction like that in the UK. Be careful !
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