Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > Northern and Central Asia
Northern and Central Asia Topics specific to Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Mongolia, China, Japan and Korea
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

25 years of HU Events


Destination ANYWHERE...
Adventure EVERYWHERE!




Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



Like Tree174Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3 Oct 2022
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 1,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
Anything non factual or objective should be noted as such including sources .... for example ... "there are rumours originating from Ukrainian telegram channels that Russia is preparing to close its borders to men of military age" as opposed to "Russia is preparing to close its border to men of military age".
If you claim to be the source of truth here, correcting others, then you would do well to stop assuming where others' information is coming from.

Quote:
The border crossing with Georgia (there is only one) has long queues. The border crossings with Finland however do not have them.
Correct, insofar as the Finnish border previously required a valid Schengen visa for Russian citizens to cross. Finland had already significantly reduced its own Schengen visa processing capacity for Russians, and as of the end of September, Russian citizens are not allowed into Finland even if they have valid Schengen tourist visas. (Finnish national broadcaster quoting Finnish government sources, NOT a Ukrainian telegram channel.)

And yes, if you are an EU/US/UK passport holder currently in Russia, you can get out via the Finnish, Norwegian, Latvian or Estonian border crossings easily enough. Less so if you try to get out via the Georgian, Kazakh or Mongolian borders (where Russian passport holders don't need visas, so there have been long queues).

Quote:
Firstly, Mass mobilisation has NOT been announced. A partial mobilisation has been announced, comprising previous service members only.
A "partial" mobilization that is not legally restricted in size. The relevant article (#7) of the signed bill is top secret. Here is the relevant Ukrainian telegram group for you: Указ «Об*объявлении частичной мобилизации в*Российской Федерации» • Президент России

Also, the definition of "previous service member" here includes anyone who's done conscript service, which means almost every male citizen of Russia over 18, plus the women in militarily relevant professions, so doctors and nurses. (Reservists in the sense of people who have actively signed up to be in an army reserve, undergo regular refresher training and be called up if necessary, are the BARS units that have already been on the front lines for months.)

Quote:
Strict guidelines for eligibility have been announced confirming that.
Have they? Because the actual presidential order contains no strict guidelines and no exclusions. There are only a bunch of interviews with the Defense Minister and other government officials, each of whom has their own opinions about who will and won't be called up - but none of it has the force of law, even insofar as that counts in Russia.

Quote:
Secondly, the Russian authorities have not announced any plans to ban men of military age leaving the country. There has been nothing more than speculation that such a ban will occur. It may happen in the future, who knows. But it is not fact. It is at this time mere rumour.
Speculation by credible sources in the Presidential Administration (https://meduza.io/news/2022/09/25/is...zhat-iz-rossii).

Furthermore, men of military age who have received draft notices are forbidden from leaving their official place of residence without the written permission of their local Voenkomat (source: the actual law of the Russian Federation, Статья 21. Обязанности граждан, подлежащих призыву на военную службу по мобилизации \ КонсультантПлюс). And the Russian authorities have set up mobile draft notice distribution kiosks at overland border posts.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4 Oct 2022
klausmong1's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch
Horizon Unlimited should not be a political narrative bulletin board. People come here for factual information and objective opinions and in a time and area where there is considerable disinformation from all sides, we need to try and keep it real here guys.
Thank you for that.

I know personally a few people who ride in Russia at the moment.
And I rather rely on their information then to rumors in a forum
__________________
www.klausmotorreise.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4 Oct 2022
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,364
A personal view. I'm currently in Aktau/Kazakhstan and last afternoon/evening/night arranged for my bike that I rode from Bishkek/Kyrgyzstan, via Uzbekistan to here to travel by ferry to Alat/Azerbaijan.

I'll fly to Baku/Azerbaijan in a couple of days to meet up with the bike. Land (and sea) borders into Azerbaijan are closed, but flying in and riding out to Georgia is possible.

All hotels in Aktau are full with Russian men in their 20s and 30s, some with their partners and children too, but mostly single men, some shipping their cars on the same ship as me, although it's currently very windy in the Caspian Sea, so all ships are at anchor, going nowhere. Them and me are flying to Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey (Russians don't need visas for these countries). Flights are booked out for 2 or 3 weeks in advance.

I've spoken to several of them. They're all educated (IT jocks, engineers etc) and speak English. They are on local social media channels like Telegram where they share their "avoiding-mobilisation experiences". Of course this is possibly all just complete fiction and I should just exclusively follow Yandex traffic information?!

They told me of 40km queues (as in the road is blocked) at the Russia/Georgia border south of Vladikafkas. There is a special lane for buses. The buses get stoned if they try to travel along it ("queue jumping"), so they just sit on the queue instead.

I have a valid Russian visa in my German passport, but chose to take the ferry/ fly option. Because:

The riding on my 650 thumper has been mind chillingly boring for the past 3000km. My tyres are nicely squared off already... I couldn't face more thousands of straight line slabbing around the top of the Caspian Sea, and I genuinely can't be ar$ed with the disaster of the stretch between Atyrau and Astrakhan.

Will the Russians even let me in, considering the EU was allegedly stopping Russians with valid Schengen visas getting in? Reciprocity etc. Do I want to chat with Russian uniformed types as to what I'm doing on the country if I do get in?

I'm not planning to ride to Finland. My destination is Bulgaria.

I'm particularly not keen to get involved in the border situation entering Georgia from Russia. While I pretty much wrote the manual creative riding (Cairo 1999 for example, palming off an Egyptian policeman (he was very slight in stature and crumpled ) trying to stop me riding 200 meters the wrong way up a one way street ) , negotiating 40km of p!ssed off Russians of conscription age isn't my idea of fun and giggles.

So, insha'Allah, me and Engelberta, the Humperthumper, will be Georgia sooner than later and I'll probably park the bike in Armenia and fly back to Bulgaria. Then return next early summer and ride the lovely biking friendly Armenian and Georgian mountains before taking the Turkish TET west to mi casa en BG.

I'm in the market for tyres in Tiblisi
__________________

TBS.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10 Oct 2022
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
A personal view. I'm currently in Aktau/Kazakhstan and last afternoon/evening/night arranged for my bike that I rode from Bishkek/Kyrgyzstan, via Uzbekistan to here to travel by ferry to Alat/Azerbaijan.
Missed you in Bishkek. Didn't know there is anyone else here this time of year. Apart from Russians in their 20-30s filling the hotels.

For sure hotels in major cities in Kazakh and Kyrgyzstan are full. Prices are a bit nuts due to the Russian exodus. Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Armenia and Georgia are very popular due to 1) there are flights and or direct borders 2) everyone speaks Russian 3) no visas required. 4) lower living costs than Russia.

Again that's all reasonably verifiable by looking at 3rd party data sources like booking.com. The fact the hotels are full doesn't mean there are border queues where yandex maps shows it is green. As mentioned earlier. There is a notorious queue at the Georgian border. If you are headed to Georgia Chris I would consider going via Dagestan - Azerbaijan. Then from Azerbaijan to Georgia to avoid the Georgia -Russia border.

But do also take telegram channels (even Russian ones of how to cross borders), with some degree of a grain of salt. Everyone has a habit of embellishing their own stories and without moderators the truth is easily lost in "war stories" told by those who have done it, telling stories to the wide-eyed noobs. A 2 km queue can easily turn into a 20 km when retold to an easily impressed captive audience. Telegram and Twitter are largely anonymous so the veracity of information is generally very low, especially if the audience is already heavily emotionally engaged.

When I flew Moscow to Bishkek (same date I wrote the previous post) while the internet was awash with all manner of stories (mainly telegram and Twitter based) that turned out to be false such as 40 km queues at the Mongolian border, 35 km queues at the Finnish border etc) so I was surprised to see the aeroplane was in fact not full with 20-30 year old IT guys but actually was pretty normal - businessmen, Kyrgyz families with kids, old babushkas. Hotels in Bishkek however were filling up fast and prices skyrocketing. Cafes in Bishkek were and still are full of ethnic Russian guys on iMacs - I assume many are working remotely.

Also worth noting if anyone is travelling in KG and is put off by the likely expensive and hard to come by hotel vacancies in Bishkek in the present and coming weeks, if you get out of Bishkek and into the hills, there isn't a Russian IT soul around. Even in the tourist town of Karakol it's business as usual, with prices their normal low level and no shortage at all of accommodation. (Again totally verifiable on Booking.com)

Last edited by colebatch; 11 Oct 2022 at 15:17.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10 Oct 2022
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
Wasn't intending to have a go at you personally. I was noting that there is a LOT of disinformation coming from sources in whose interests it is to spread disinformation therefore everything should be correctly sourced and not proclaimed as fact. It is our interest as a source of travellers information to stick as closely as possible to fact and not to cherry pick and embellish very biased news sources.

For example:
In the comment below you claim it was a "credible" source in the administration, via Medusa, for the claim Russia was about to close its borders.. I would note the following:

1) medusa is an opposition news media aggregator. It is very often not the source of it own stories, nor is it able to fact check them. Further it has a vested interest in promoting stories with a very strong political agenda.
2) medusa as far as I can see never claimed in the article that the source was "credible". They never used that term at all. It merely stated "a source in the administration".
3) the source claimed borders would close after the 4 regional referenda on joining Russia, and in fact named a date - September 28 - for the closing of Russia's borders to men of military age.

Bearing in mind it is now October 10, I put it to you that this source appears to be "not credible" and therefore the whole story (based on this source) is not credible and may very well be a made up non existent source, to justify running a made up story - very common in journalistic practice when pushing an agenda - claim a credible insider deep throat source that has to remain anonymous, and you can get away with creatively writing any made up story.

Again we don't know what will change in the future but as at the date of your post, it was not right to have claimed seemingly definitively that "Russia is preparing to close its borders." (Even more so with the unwritten expectation of Sept 28). I said it at the time and I say it again. It was nothing more than a rumour - at that time and indeed still now a couple of weeks later. Just because a fringe news agency promotes a story doesn't make it true.

I won't go into detail re the other points. It suffice to say that allegations of the existence of secret hidden paragraphs in Russian govt legislation, and what those hidden paragraphs allegedly contain are highly dubious. Especially when those allegations are coming from the Ukrainian govt, which not only has a very strong vested interest in spreading civilian panic and discontent in Russia but has a pretty strong track record for misinformation since February (Ghost of Kyiv etc). Indeed any govt in a conflict has a extremely strong incentive to spread disinformation to the "enemy" population. That's just reality. So stories originating or strongly promoted by opposing sources ... Well that's not credible stuff. That not stuff anyone should be alleging is "fact". It might be "emotionally satisfying" to believe that stuff, but that doesn't make it fact. Stories like that potentially may be true - nothing rules that out - but there is more than enough reasons to be very skeptical and that rules out purporting that it is established fact.

I just think we need to be a lot more critical about what we believe is true and to understand the motives behind each 2nd and 3rd hand source of information we use / refer to. (Lets be clear I dont expect anyone on the HUBB to be a first hand source and personally have access to alleged secret paragraphs in Russian Govt legislation - so talking about it like it is fact is simply not credible) As I noted in my post a few weeks ago, there is LOT of disinformation out there and this thread demonstrates how deeply it penetrates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnTyx View Post
If are
Speculation by credible sources in the Presidential Administration (https://meduza.io/news/2022/09/25/is...zhat-iz-rossii).
.

Last edited by colebatch; 19 Nov 2022 at 08:29.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10 Oct 2022
chris's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: GOC
Posts: 3,364
Walter
You suggested crossing from Dagestan to Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan land and sea borders are closed to all foreigners since Covid started. They still are for entry, today.

I flew Aktau/KZ last Friday night/ Sat morning to Baku/AZ. Delivered bike last Monday to Kuryk/KZ port. It left there on Wednesday, when there was a gap in the wind for ferry to enter/exit the port. It arrived Friday evening at Alat/AZ and I fetched it from the port on Saturday afternoon (the day before yesterday). It was in the same condition and un-tampered with, despite being loaded/unloaded by some burly Azeri docker/ seafarer or two.

I'm in Ganja/AZ (with a name like that, I had to stay here ) tonight and crossing AZ/Georgia tomoz. Foreigners (and their vehicles) are allowed out...

Sorry to the pedants (not really ) : Nothing in this reply has directly to do with the RUS/UKR situation. Maybe I'll travel to Russia again, or maybe I won't. I have incredibly fond memories of my 2013 western BAM and on to Magadan trip, but riding the Russian/Kazakh/Uzbek Steppe is something I don't ever have/want to do (again). There are too many other far better riding regions in the world, imho.

PS. Shame I missed you in Bishkek. I was there from 7 to 11 September and had to cross from Osh to Uzbekistan in order to be able to do some shifty business to get my bike out, which was between one and two years overtime (depending on if you include the year's extension everyone got beyond the TIP expiry date due to Covid). I wrote an abridged version of what happened on my Facebook. Full description only if plied with piva
__________________

TBS.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best country to buy Honda Falcon 400 to travel in SA? mahsita South America 6 21 Feb 2014 21:55
THAILAND - Travel advice (safety) kentfallen West and South Asia 1 30 Jan 2014 02:44
Suggest me where to go after S.America! Africa? or Asia country? wkheathjr Route Planning 1 24 Feb 2013 22:18
Adventure Travel Film Festival Australia - Bright Vic 24-26 Feb 2012 Adventure Travel Film Festival Australia HU Travellers Meetings - Australia 23 28 Nov 2012 06:04
Global Giving Field visitor as you travel jcravens Make a Difference 0 11 Nov 2011 20:53

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
Ecuador June 13-15
Bulgaria Mini: June 27-29
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Aug 14-17
Romania: Aug 22-24
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)

Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:23.