Just to add to that. the DRZ E and S are 90% the same bike. The WRF and WRR are 0% the same bike. Pretty much the only thing they share is the first 2 letters. Both are road legal in Australia as well. The WRF is an enduro bike with maintenance intervals in the hours and not at all a travel rig. Both DR's are good travel rigs if you do your homework. I'd take the DR-E over the S personally and put up with the ali subframe, but prefer the WRR over all of these mentioned.

Europe doesn't see many of these bikes because there are simply no riding areas for them. There is a massive difference on what Adv riding means between the different continents. Which shows a lot on this forum.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

This is the misperception most have regards these bikes. In fact they are quite different ... and in major important areas.
I was lucky enough to attend the original DRZ400S press introduction in around 2001 or 2002. The DRZ400Z and DRZ400E had already been out since 1999. Lots different according to Suzuki, who did an hour long tech intro to the new bike, citing all the specific changes made to the new, road legal "S" model. Note: USA model, perhaps EU/OZ bikes are different?

I don't have the Press packet they passed out but off the top of my head:

1. different cylinder head, piston, cam, valve sizes, cam timing, compression ratio.
2. substantially different charging and elec. system. (all DOT electrics)
3. Different Carb : standard CV carb on S vs. Pumper FCR carb on E.
4. Sub frame .. none on E.
5. Pillion additions, and lots of EPA/DOT smog additions to "S" model.
6. suspension. totally different.
7. Internal gearing.

Those are the basic differences, but there are more.

But I DO agree that either one would make a good travel bike and I too prefer E model (owned one) over the S model. But in the end ... if really doing it, I'd take the S model for practical considerations even though the E is MUCH better off road ... and much closer to a CCM if one were comparing them straight up.

Fair call. I was aware of most of those, but tried to point it out relative to the Yammy comparison who share next to no parts. Thanks for clarifying though.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Getting back on the topic of the thread, sales of the GP450 continue, in the UK at least:-
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...at-bolton.html

The earlier thread from ABR (it's a Brit website so naturally they talk about this bike) -- linked earlier in here -- also contains updates about the bike from those who have now put in a few 1000 miles since purchasing these bikes a few months ago.

Apparently, a niche manufacturer can still "make a go of it" in the UK.

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Dave

One shouldn't forget, that CCM is probably sourcing most of it's income from adapting vehicles for military and police use. Only the income from the 450 sales would probably never refinance the development costs.

My own CCM 450 will be back in the garage tomorrow, after some modifications and improvements have been done by the Swedish dealer NCCR. I am now really looking forward to take the bike on the mountain trails in Norway during my upcoming three week vacation, which starts in just a bit more than a week.

I think it will be perfect for Norway

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HansP
All you wanted to know
about riding in Norway

I was able to test the CCM in Italy, I really liked the bike, here is a little video I made about it for my blog (facebook.com/zimiontheloose)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPijA8CJnIs

Very nicely done video and a GREAT review as well!
Thanks for sharing!

What about riding this CCM fully loaded with luggage and all accessories on board? Have you tried the bike off road with full luggage?

I'm sure it's a great trail bike with no load on board but some will be taking the bike on long, extended RTW type rides and probably carrying TOO MUCH stuff.

And what about fast highway cruising (like at 70 mph all day) Can it do it OK?
(vibration? engine revving too high??)

What are your thoughts about the CCM as a long distance travel bike?

Hi,

thanks!!! No I didn't have the change to ride the bike on highway neither with luggages...

I just had the opportunity to try it for 1 day, only off road.

waiting for somebody else to share some experience...

I've had only one ccm that was the 404ds that I really enjoyed and the thought of ccm fetching out the ccm 450 made me think about my next purchase, with it been English that was even better till I seen the price, I still made contact twice to have a test ride as I thought if it's bril I pay the price, unfortunately they didn't even bother to get back to me on both occasions, not very good start, I was in Italy doing the hard alp tour last year when I tried to speak to ccm sales guy regarding the bike and very rudely he walked away when I was speaking to him,
I would not buy one of these bikes now if they were halve price, I'm sorry I can't tell you what they handle like but can tell you what the people are like that sell them,,,,,,shit,,,,,,
That's my experience people, other people have had better,,,,,I hope because in this industry you can not afford to do this that often.

Why anyone would buy one of these when they could have a Honda CB500X with the Rally Raid 3 kit for less money is beyond me.

With those mods the CB500x ends up somewhat like the BMW 700GS, similar suspension travel and similar 19/17" wheel diameter. Personally I'd rather have the GP450's 21" front wheel and longer travel suspension.

Also not keen on DIY jobs to massively change a bike's characteristics, it raises eyebrows with insurance companies and you never get the secondhand resale value of all the extras from a standard bike.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

These are great points ... and ones I was not aware of.

At first I thought you were crackers regards weight and suspension travel similarities between the 700GS and kitted CB500X. Lo and behold you are spot on ... they end up very close in most every category. (BMW being a bit top heavy if I remember my test riding) BMW has more power, still returns great economy.
CB500 may have the edge in long term reliability .. Dunno for sure.

The Rally kitted CB500X still has about a $2000 USD price advantage over the BMW 700GS ($10K USD) ... but I'm thinking the BMW is the better road bike, packs up better for travel, will have better re-sale and better warranty. Trade offs.

But I agree, neither are (IMHO) great for technical trail use unless you are long legged, strong and an expert rider. Here the CCM wins the day every time. But a well kitted/modded DRZ400S is nearly as good for half the price ... not to mention ...

Current KTM and Husqvarna dual sport bikes are also in the $10K USD area. (I think the CCM is about 12K USD?) Much as I'd appreciate them ALL in tough off road situations, I don't consider any of them as ideal travel bikes. But HORSES for COURSES ... what works for Walter Colebatch may not work for everyone.
I don't need a race bike for travel.

I like cheap, cheerful, indestructible and ... EXPENDABLE!

Compared to the BMW F700GS, the Honda will have far better fuel economy, better reliability and is cheaper even with the conversion kit; insurance here (N America) is not an issue and resale is higher due to the conversion.

Total no-brainer in my book, but you pays your money and you makes your choice.

Maybe they actually like the GP450; maybe after taking a test ride even?

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Dave