Camcorders

[Warthog]

Whilst I still want to record any future trips on Slide/jpeg, I have often considered a video diary, that I can watch over and over when HD TVs are old hat!!

First thought about it when we went to Argentina but scrapped the idea due to space and cost, but there are some nice looking HD camcorders out there.

If you are in the know, care to share with me the sorts of specs I should look for and what the 'corder specific jargon is?

Any particularly good brands too for quality, sturdiness, image and battery life?

Cheers

[colebatch]

There is a new one just out ... its HD, lightweight (the weight of only 3 mobile phones), and records to SD card (no moving parts, low battery consumption and jolt resistant)

Canon HF100. I havent had the chance to check it out yet, but its full HD... 1920 x 1080 , and the reviews are very promising. Its on my shopping list !

Google it for more info

[Flyingdoctor]

My Panasonic SDR S10 records to SD cards. At it's best quality 10 Mbps 704x567 it only gives 25 minutes on a 2 GB card! I wonder how much HD you would get even on an 8GB card?

I have the option to record at 5 Mbps and 2.5 Mbps with the reduction in quality and increase in record time. 5 Mbps is acceptable for youtube.

[colebatch]

I have used a SDR S10 a few times, and have not been impressed with the quality - especially in low light

Canon are saying that in LP mode (5Mbps) you get 6hrs 5mins recording on a 16 GB card. Full HD is 17Mbps ... implying you will get 1 hr 47 mins out of best picture mode. (there are also 7Mbps and 12 Mbps modes) There is a different compression algorithm in the new canons as well which is purportedly giving better quality video at higher levels of compression. 16GB cards are coming down in price all the time and are currently 55 quid. (High Capacity Secure Digital/SD Card 16GB Card (Class 6) from Offtek.co.uk) Before long there will be 32 GB cards out in SDHC format.

[Flyingdoctor]

You tend to get what you pay for with cameras. The canon is over 3 times the price of the little SDR. I haven't held one, but I bet it's 3 times the weight too. Horses for courses.

[blurg]

Hi,

I don't want to take over the topic but I want to add something, because I've got the same question as Colebatch, but want to add one thing:

Which brand is capable of taking with you on a humping-bumping trip.

I've taken videocamera's with me on the last couple of travels and they all died, from dust, bumps and so on.

I also want to buy a HD camera with solid state, because I've got enough of tape, last time I wasn't able to film anymore, while being in Africa.

Is solid state (because of the lack of mechanic moving parts) indeed much better to take for overland trips?

Jurgen

[CrazyCarl]

In theory it should be but I believe many of the solid states save only in compressed formats. Maybe the higher end one's save uncompressed but for HD that amount of data would be considerable. Hope you bring about 200-300gigs of flash memory.

CC

[blurg]

Thanks for your answer, but still I'd like to know about this Canon compressions, is it still good enough to watch on a tv (showing the family and so on) or is this then only suitable for small Youtube like formats?
I can forget about the HD thing, this is not necessary.

Of course I can't take 200gigs with me, at least that would cost a lot of bucks.

[TravellingStrom]

Hi

This link shows news on an upcoming system from Baehr in June.

News

I saw the actual product at the Townsville AGM and they looked quite small and compact and built for the type of things we want to use them for, rugged outdoor sports.

I looked at the specs, one of them was broadcast quality, 800x600 screen size and 730lines of PAL resolution, the other one had 480. The lipstick cameras they had plugged into them had a nice lens with about a 60 degree view, perfect for helmet cam

I guess he is back home in NZ by now. He did not have any for sale at the AGM.

Cheers
TravellingStrom

[Frank Warner]

Originally Posted by blurg

I also want to buy a HD camera with solid state, because I've got enough of tape, last time I wasn't able to film anymore, while being in Africa.

Is solid state (because of the lack of mechanic moving parts) indeed much better to take for overland trips?

I think you'll find tape has a large capacity ... when compared to solid state (memory flash cards). So you'll need more cards than tape ...


As for the format ... I think you'll find it is all compressed! Makes storage much better (more minutes per byte). So I'd not worry about the compression (or encoding) .. but the resolution of the image. And an anti shake mode ... one that works with the lipstick lens.

-----------------
Running out ... of tape/cards/rolls of film .. buy more .. or copy it to CD and send the CDs home ..

[blurg]

I don't mind spending more money on memory, compared to buying a new camera it's a bargain

I think uncompressed is no option, then I indeed need 200gigs as a previous poster said. Is 10MBps okay with format 704x567 you think?

What do you mean resolution is something I need to worry about more then compression?


Thanks!
Jurgen

[edteamslr]

I too have seen the HF10/100 and thought that it may be the answer to my prayers (having just transcoded 74 hours of miniDV from my africa trip onto my computer for editing). I don't think it's ready for me yet...

I'm glad I took my Canon MVX with me this time because although its old-fashioned miniDV, the tapes are reasonably robust, easy to find, the player was cheap, it also could be used with my helmet cam (av-in), batteries cheap and I didn't mind so much it being stolen (so I took it out with me more - crucial to getting the best clips!)

Refrain from becoming fixated with resolutions - cost and availability of accessories, what television you have and how you intend to distribute the media afterwards should be foremost in your mind (for newbies, I mean - don't roast me, camera-pros). Depending on who you ask, 720p often looks better than 1080i, for example. Who here has a Blueray burner? DVD it is then. On the other hand, sticking a memory stick in your computer after you've finished clearly seems to me like the way-forward!

Mainstream HD has arrived - but is it ready for life in the field with us overlanders?

[TravellingStrom]

Originally Posted by edteamslr

Refrain from becoming fixated with resolutions - cost and availability of accessories, what television you have and how you intend to distribute the media afterwards should be foremost in your mind

I have to disagree. Resolution is all! Your standard TV is where most people would rather watch videos/movies. For that you need to have the resolution to fill a TV screen, this means image resolution of at the minimum 576 TV lines PAL, and whatever NTSC equivelent(480 I think). Don't forget, the less TV resolution, the blurrier the picture, so if you want nice clear large movies that other people will enjoy watching, you need to concentrate on resolution. Forget compression and trying to make it for computer screens, TV is and will still be the preferred place to watch movies of any sort.

Unless they like Utube quality.

If you have got the above, you can then worry about moving it around, but a basic DVD burner would do it.

Cheers
TravellingStrom

[edteamslr]

I know this thread is called camcorders but the substance had moved towards HD and by 'resolution' my comments were aimed at people thinking about HD over 'standard def'. I know that those little mpeg cams that record to sd cards are acceptable (rarely good) for action footage only. Resolution is not ALL - I'm no expert but go on any of the DV websites and you see people talking about other factors such as interlacing- 60i, 30p and colour handling (blacks etc.). For me the Canon HF10 is the beginning of HD cameras that are really relevant for us late adopters and I'd hate to see people learning about camcorders being told that Resolution is ALL!

[blurg]

Thanks for your answers.

It's not so much that I want HD, but at least a format one can show on a regular telly.

I've got a regular tv and I just want to be able to record something and show it to my family, so the Canon HF10 looks very promising for what I need.

Is it best to record uncompressed?
That means 17MBps * 60 = 1Gig per minute.
60Gigs for one hour! Oops.

Would I be able to record with compression which results in, say, 10MBps and still able to watch it on a regular non HD telly screen?

Jurgen