Hi, long story short: there´s a group of four riders wanting to go all the way from EU to Cambodia starting in mid-August (very soon, considering they still haven´t even got their route worked out!) Their initial plan has been to go via Iran, India & Burma. But the current situation with the carnet is a joke, they have to go through the Swedish AA, and the Swedes say they want 300% of each vehicle´s value, if these guys want to get into Pakistan. I posted a different thread about the carnet thing. Currently still working on that situation, BUT in case it remains this way, they may need to think of a “plan B” (I won´t be going, I´m just trying to help out my friend, who is)...

SO, referring to the map below - have I got these about right, means that if they want to ride all the way, it will have to be one of these options listed below, and all of them will have their own pros and cons.... (note, that the routes drawn on that map are only approximate, and for general route planning only - and several of the routes combine with another route at some point(s) )

They plan to start mid-August, and finish in Cambodia around end of October, so about 2,5 months only for the entire trip.


The map:


Route 1 (Iran-Pakistan-India-Burma)
– this WILL require the carnet
– necessary to get into Pakistan (which is an amazing country, but the 300% bond for the carnet is the current show-stopper here)
– will need to get to Burma, and ride through Burma from India to Thailand
– this route is the most “year-round” of them all, although eastern Turkey and northern Iran could get cold, severe heat in some of the desert areas, or monsoon rains probably should not be a big obstacle with their timing)

Route 2 (Kyrgyzstan-China-Pakistan-India-Burma)
– this will require the carnet
– this will require to get into China, but stay inside China could be shorter than in other options that include China, therefore the costs should come down a bit
– necessary to get into Pakistan (includes the spectacular Karakoram Highway)
– will need to get to Burma, and ride through Burma

Route 3 (Kyrgyzstan-China (Tibet)-China-Laos)
– NO need for carnet on this route
– this will require to get into China, and because of Tibet, could be the highest costing China-option
– days or weeks at very high altitude in the Tibetan plateau, I´m guessing this route is not possible in the winter months
– no need to get into Pakistan or Burma

Route 4 (Kazakhstan-China-Laos)
– no need for carnet
– needs to get into China and thru entire China but not Tibet; still a costly option
– no need to get into Pakistan or Burma
– can´t leave this very late because of coming winter in Kazakhstan and north China

Route 5 (Mongolia-China-Laos)
– no need for carnet; this could necessitate a bit shorter stay in China, but otherwise it has more or less the same “specs” as route 4.

Route 6 (India-Nepal-Tibet)
– for this, they´d need everything, the carnet for Pakistan, get into China, get into Tibet, so I don´t see this as a viable option for them, but just drew it on the map, because this route basically does exist!

Any comments or ideas are very welcome, and especially, if you have done one of these routes lately. I've ridden route #1 up until India myself, but a long time ago, recent experience would be golden. This group will need to decide very soon, what they are gonna do.

Looks to me like route #1 is still overall the strongest option, provided the carnet situation is solvable.

But if not, then does anybody have personal experience on option #4 (Kazakhstan-China-Laos), and if this might be do-able so that the group stays in China for a maximum of 21 days? It probably means skipping a lot of sightseeing, but they´re gonna have to look for ways to bring the costs down.

(This option (#4) seems to me to be the most realistic of those options, that include China).

I rode through China last year. Entered China the 9. september and exited to Laos 30 days later. My group entered from Kyrgizstan via the Torugart Pass and the first major city we reached in China was Kashgar/Kashi. If your friends plan to enter China from Kasakhstan I suppose it will be approximately the same distance in China take or give a few hundred kms.

Timewise I suppose it should not be a big problem to do that distance in 21 days. I think we rode 6-7000 kms alltogether in China. Mainly on very good roads. We rode mostly on the highways/tollroads that motorbikes normally arent allowed to use. But in western China it wasnt a big problem, the tollroadstaff sometimes just waved us through. But more central in China it got more and more difficult to get through all these toll barriers as sometimes the staff blocked loopholes and even made human chains to deny us access. A couple of days we had to ride on really shitty back roads. We had 4-5 restdays/sightseingdays and the last part in Yunnan province was just toddeling around and zigzaging parts of the province to use all our 30 days that we have paid a lot for. Most days we just rode 4-500 km. And we could have ridden much longer pr day if needed. Do timewise it shouldnt be a problem for your friends.

The only thing that I will warn your friends a little about is that if going on the green route or maybe the blue route you have drawn on the map your most likely to travel over high altitudes late at year which means a big chance for snow and ice and harsh conditions. We rode just a little to the west of where you have drawn the green route where we actually rode over and crossed very high altitude mountain areas with native Tibet people, lots of Yak cattle and mountain goats. So it was the western end of the Tibet plateu I guess or maybe its called the Himalayan plateu. The high altitude area stretches much further out to the east than just the Tibet province. We rode just a little west of your green line and was up to 3900 meter above sea level. And we did that in late september. It was snow on our motorbikes one morning at the highest point we spent a night (Langmuzi) and it was near to zero degrees there and lots of snow in the mountains at that time. We rode on an altitude of above 3000 meters for more than two days. I wouldnt have liked to ride there several weeks later as it probably would have been snow and ice on the roads that late of year.
I can look up the route we rode if you like. We came down to Chengdu after crossing the Tibet plateu.

But timewise I will say - no problem.

__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....

Thanks, that is great info!

Actually it is now looking more and more likely, that they will choose route #1, so no going to China for them this time.

hello,

But is it secure to go through Pakistan today with all the reports of violence?

I'm also planning to go from Europe to Nepal in year, and need help with the route...

Hi Pecha,

Friends who visited me in Zagreb at Lobagola B&B | design bed & breakfast in the center of Zagreb they're from UK, but riding a NZ plated Transalp. They tried to get through Pakistan, got the visas sorted and all the paperwork, but couple of days before they entered a foreign cyclist was blown up in an attack on a bus full of people. I'm not implying that your friends ditch the Pakistan route, I'm just transferring the latest info couple of weeks old.

Keep us updated on the plans and the route itself,

ride on
Dooby

Hi fellas,

interesting thread to read - thanks pecha72 and commentators!

Heading east (on our motorbikes) from Germany next year
and we want to spend as little as possible (and China route with a guide etc sounds expensive), the idea was
to cross Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan and continue to India and onwards.

Balochistan area is notorious for being unstable for a long time now, so although our idea looks good on the map - going to south eastern Iran and continuing to south-west Pakistan alongside the coast - is it in fact reasonable?

Any latest news on the subject? Does this route sound feasable at all?

Since we intend to deal with visas as we apporach each border, we'd be in a big trouble if we had to change the route and head back to Iran, cross the Stans and somehow organize all the paperwork for China while on the road.

Or better plan the (our) second option ...-Turkey-Iran-Stans-China-Laos-... from here?!

So it seems it's best to get some reliable info and tips on this bit rather than to improvize (for THIS part of our rtw).

Thanks for your comments!

Marc

I went through there with my wife in November 2007. Even back then, the questions were very similar to the ones asked now (and we thought about that very same thing) - is it safe??

So my experience is not very recent, but here´s my take: Balochistan has probably become a bit worse than it was in Nov-2007 (although there was martial law in place in Pakistan back then) ... BUT travellers have gone through there all the time, and it is very rare to hear anybody having security related issues. Tourists do not seem to be the target of violence, and wrong time wrong place could happen but probability is still quite low, however there is somewhat elevated risk of kidnapping. I would not post any specific details of my current whereabouts or short term plans anywhere on the public net, if I was to go through that area, just let my next of kin know, where I am.

Contrary to all the bad news we´d read, Pakistan for us was an extremely friendly country to visit. Same goes for Iran actually. But I´m not saying there are no risks. (Traffic will probably be among the most realistic risks, it is quite bad in Iran, and worse in Pakistan).

I'm currently planning the same route as your route #1. Same final destination (Cambodia) but will probably ride first to Kathmandu then return home and return later for the second leg. Plan to leave mid-August 2016.

Which route did your friends finally chose? It would be interesting to post some updates now and then. Especially about the situation in Pakistan. Do they have a blog/website?

__________________
1997 Africa Twin

Sadly, they´ve had to postpone their trip. One person in the group has a very bad health situation, and also the "leader" was just way too busy with running his company, to really get it all together now. I hope they will get to do it soon, though, maybe in 1-2 years.

Hi guys,
I am looking at planning a route from the UK to Thailand, so similar route planning.
I read that to ride though any part of china you must be with a specially licensed tour guide you cannot ride yourself through. bit shite as this costs loooads of £££ from what iv seen.. so this is out for me.. through Iraq and pakistan sounds abit dodgy to me, dont fancy having my head removed or getting stuck with entering or leaving the countrys as im sure they probably couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery, have seen others online being refused entry when they arive despite having correct paperwork...
Anywho im looking at flying myself and bike from Bulgaria or wherever is cheapest to India and then continuing on from there. Thoughts and advise would be muchly appreciated!!

Fletch

From what I've gathered with a group or six or so, you could expect to pay roughly $1500 USD each to cross China from Kyrgyzstan to Nepal. I've been working on that a bit with Navo Tours, one of the largest China tour outfits, as a possibility for July 2016 or thereabouts. Pakistan is another option, as is riding to Mongolia and shipping from there to Kathmandu or India.

If you got in a group, your cost would probably be less than shipping to India and your own flight... plus you don't miss Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan

__________________
http://ridefar.typepad.com