I'm happy to stand corrected on the ways the three ferries have apparently adjusted to the Argentine financial mess since I was there. I remain curious about the quoted fares. I got as far as noting that advance internet fares still vary by about 300% before I lost interest in checking further last night. If I was planning to use the ferries, I'd sure be studying those advance fares carefully.

I'm not clear what's being said about the border crossings at the various Andes passes. The OP needs his poder no matter where he crosses--or, for that matter, no matter where he rides. He's got a legal transfer of ownership waiting to be put into play, including new title, registration and plate (tag). The question is will the Argentine aduana communicate with the Chilean aduana in such a way that he won't be able to get a TIP for the bike under its new ownership after leaving Argentina. Having crossed at a few of the high Andes passes it's difficult for me to imagine that level of coordination and professionalism among the aduana personnel I encountered.

Note that I'm describing my own imaginative abilities, not established facts with solid predictive value. As always, mileage varies.

Mark

Heya Mark

Yeah we got prices in advance and asked on the day (23rd) with a friend in BA who wanted to ferry his van, we were astounded at the prices, we were there 23rd December so maybe take that into account but this is still "high season"...maybe a Dakar factor???? .. just guessing, either way it was a hell of a cost for two of us and a moto.

We took the long way through Frey Bentos from inland Uruguay, I would always prefer to spend our cash of fuel and tires rather than a ferry like that....unless time is burning your arse.

Cheers Andi

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Cheers Andi & Ellen .... https://twomotokiwis.blogspot.com/ Two Moto Kiwis Alaska - Argentina - April 2012 -> Somewhere

"I'm not clear what's being said about the border crossings at the various Andes passes. The OP needs his poder no matter where he crosses--or, for that matter, no matter where he rides. He's got a legal transfer of ownership waiting to be put into play, including new title, registration and plate (tag). "

Seems to be three distict layouts of border crossings.

First - is where both adunas are in the same room, which given the possibility that one or both sets of officers may want to physically check license plates and VINs, means that physically replating the vehicle is not possible even if mild shuffling of paperwork is possible inside the room.
Second is where posts are within sight of each other. Same problem with physical swap of plates.
Third and most desirable is where posts are miles apart and in between is deserted. Paso Sico is one such place and Iguazu Fall are another. At least three others between Chile and Argentina.

Yes, always need a poder if driving another's vehicle unless you are entered on the TIP as authorised driver. If convenient to a border post then that can be cheaper provided the current ownere is still there as a poder isn't needed PROVIDED a change of ownership/plates can be effected at the border.

Those who have just a poder and continue through multiple borders without changing title are likely to eventually come to a border they can't cross.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Still in a holding pattern in Cordoba for the moment. I appreciate everyone's advice! I'm beginning to think that perhaps Chile or Iguazu may be my point of crossing. Having a large distance between each country's customs checkpoint would be very comforting for me.

I'm definitely aware that I need a Poder in order to drive the bike. I have a notarized letter from the States, but it is in Spanish and I was told at Aduanas in Cordoba that it should be sufficient to drive the bike and leave the country. Who knows whether or not this is the truth! The only potential problem is that it says specifically on the Poder that I can drive the bike and exit Argentina into Uruguay. The story, though, is that my friend was riding his bike down from the States, broke his leg, and I flew down to bring the bike back up. Thus, to go from Argentina to the USA it wouldn't make sense to go thru Uruguay. If I try to cross into a country other than Uruguay, I plan to explain that Uruguay is not a good route for me to take back the USA. The previous owner's TIP expires on the 19th too, so I'm hoping they'll let me leave with the bike just to get it out in time! I plan to make my decision in the next couple days. I'll definitely report back on how it goes!

Quick question: Andi - what was the border crossing experience like at Frey Bentos? Did the Argentinian and Uruguayan officials share desks or rooms? Or was each station on opposite sides of the bridge?

[QUOTE=howlatthemoon;491674

Quick question: Andi - what was the border crossing experience like at Frey Bentos? Did the Argentinian and Uruguayan officials share desks or rooms? Or was each station on opposite sides of the bridge?[/QUOTE]

All Land/Bridge crossings between Uruguay and Argentina are one building situations where the officials from both countries share a desk. The only URG/ARG crossing where the aduanas are separate is the BsAs-Colonia ferry. And there is only one ferry company that takes vehicles - Buequebus. The immigration is at a shared desk, but aduanas is separate; one on each side of the river.

All crossings into Brasil from any country are separate affairs. No shared desks.

Some ARG/Chile crossings are shared desk. The Paso Jama is one of them.

I recommend the ferry crossing since you will be with about 100 other vehicles and the aduanas people will be very busy will all the other vehicles and not spend any time scrutinizing your situation.

Greetings.

Our Info is from 2007 where we crossed from Chile to Argentina many many times.

HU Traveller Ken and Carol Duval's Ride Tale

Paso de Icalma. The distance between the two border posts was from memory several kms on a dirt road so the change of plates would be feasible. Really nice ride plus we camped on the lake for a couple of nights

Another pass to consider would be Paso Agua Negra where there was a huge distance between the relative border posts. When we were chasing the Dakar in 2009 could not believe we were in no mans land for so long but once again spectacular riding.

BUT...something to consider... if returning Argentina would the TVIP be upset with VIN/Engine numbers already in the system with a bike re-entering with a new/ different plate?

Perhaps the question should be 'are the border posts on line'? If so, will this change of ownership - new plate - be a problem?

Cheers K & C

Yes, gunt86 covered it well, they are literally side by side.

Also great advice from Ken, none of the distance in the world will take away what is written on their computer screen, this is where your paperwork will come in if they are not happy about it.

You could always try the lost or damaged plate, DON'T use stolen cos they will want to Policia paperwork (nutha tin of worms)

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Cheers Andi & Ellen .... https://twomotokiwis.blogspot.com/ Two Moto Kiwis Alaska - Argentina - April 2012 -> Somewhere

if you are still in Cordoba, why don't you cross into Chile at the PASO AGUA NEGRA?
There you have 180KM!!!! between the arg. and the chilean border posts and the pass is just brilliant!!!!

Groschi

Ok - so I took some of the previous advice and went to the Iguazu crossing. The things I read about this crossing were absolutely correct! While crossing, I never even saw Aduanas (and I was looking for it so I could hand in the TVIP). I only stopped at Immigraciones, where I had my passport stamped to leave the country. Oddly enough, the Immigration guy also asked for my license plate number (which I gave). After entering that into his system he asked if I was from Ecuador (the previous owner has dual citizenship in US and Ecuador and used his Ecuador passport to bring the bike into Argentina). I told him no (pretended to not speak Spanish well) and he sent me on my way. I made it out!

Now my question is: will I be able to get back into the country in a couple days with different papers and different license plate? I never handed in my TVIP, though the Immigrations official checked the license plate and saw the info from the TVIP. If they only check the license plate for a new TVIP when I return I should be fine. On the other hand, if the VIN gets flagged there may be an issue.

I guess I'll find out in a couple days. Will update again to let people know how it goes. Again, thanks for all the info!!

Unless something has changed recently with the system of how Arg Aduanas does TVIPs, you have made a big mistake. The last time i crossed at Iguazu, the ARG Aduanas was in a different building than immigrations and was about 100m or so from immigrations. It was on the righthand side of the road, a bit off in the trees.

You must return the TVIP to Aduanas. Otherwise the vehicle will not be granted a new TVIP ever. It will be considered to have never left Argentina. The computer system which all TVIPs are entered into contains both plate and VIN numbers.

I recommend you drive back to just before the border and find the ARG Aduanas. Tell them you were planning on returning to Argentina same day as you exited, but now you changed your mind and will be out of Argentina for 6 months or more. This is going to b rather difficult since you will have to exit Brasil immigration to do this, but they should stamp you back into Brasil without issue.

Must be a reason why the aduana building is in stealth mode - no signs, no boom gates, nothing. And I was looking hard for it. I stopped 100m past immigration and walked back and found the aduana man lazing in the shade and handed the TIP to him since he reckoned it was his job to take them.

This is the bit in my earlier post that was relevant The previous owners of my first vehicle found they had four uncancelled TIPs on the computer when they entered the last time prior to handing it over to us. Luckily they had to sort it out because I wouldn't have been able to.
Their system is obviously pretty slack, especially when vehicles come in over the isolated border crossings.

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

With all your paperwork you could always try the above board approach if the flag you on re entry, just tell them you were told to change it at the border as that is where all the official stuff is done ... then play dumb.

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Cheers Andi & Ellen .... https://twomotokiwis.blogspot.com/ Two Moto Kiwis Alaska - Argentina - April 2012 -> Somewhere

Back to the original post, where to swap license plates. I can't say for sure, but my gut says, turn in your TIP papers in AR and swap the license plate in the parking lot like you do it all the time, then cross the no man's land (or on the ferry, you will have time to swap plates, trust me.)

The key concept, you aren't doing anything illegal. I guess you are concerned that you will be confronted or get in trouble. If someone goes nuts on you, then ask calmly for clarity on the infraction. If you are getting no where, then again calmly ask to talk to someone at higher level. There are usually plenty of those at a frontier.

You can always show your documentation, which is valid and legal, and tell the story of what you are doing. At worst, you put the old plates back on and change them when you get into the no man's land or the other side.

Coming from UY to AR on the ferry, the immigrations officers for UY and AR were sitting next to each other, but the importation of the bike didn't happen until the bike was on the dock in BA. My advice, make the swap on the UY side. They are more laid back and more likely to simply nod. In all cases, act like you know what you are doing. You would be surprised what you can get away with. In Latin America confidence carries the day.

Why don't we do it in the road?
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road?
The Beatles (1968)

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Peter B
2008/09 - NJ to Costa Rica and back to NJ
2012/13 - NJ to Northern Argentina, Jamaica, Cuba and back to NJ
2023 - Peru, Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia...back to Peru.

Blogs: Peter's Ride

Why not just leave with the bike and return the TVIP, explain that you transferred the bike from the previous owner who had the TVIP in his name and now you are putting your new plate on the bike to continue your trip. Kind of like you explained to us in your original post. Should be nothing wrong with that.

Is this based on actual experience in SA?

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Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map