Any one who can add to Voteks post or share experiences like his is certainly welcome here. Wow, the mystery of Paraguay is staring to unravel. Good.

Vorteks, I have not heard of such a favorable currency exchange in Venezuela, but it sure sounds worthy of investigating. I welcome any comments in regards to buying a bike there.

Information has been provided in this thread that enables anyone to buy a new or used bike/motor vehicle in Argentina and legally register it in Argentina.

My next task will be to provide all the information necessary for a foreign moto tourist, riding a foreign registered bike, to legally register, store or sell that bike in Argentina.

If there is any interest in learning how to do this, or if anyone knows how to register a foreign registered bike in Argentina, please post, if no one posts, I'll probably carry on anyway, just because someone, one day, might travel this path, and might find this information useful.

So, first step, call your neighborhood GESTOR (one who transfers vehicle titles as a business). I have a call in now...As soon as I learn more, I will share it with you.

We still need data on length of temporary vehicle import permits for all Central and South American countries. Veterans please post. Thanks xfiltrate

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A friend from europe asked me yesterday if he could register his bike overthere(arg).So i called today a friend who makes all that paper work on cars and bikes(Gestores) and this last one told me that they are comming frosty times with forign registered vehicles here.After the corruption affair with diplomatics cars entered as "exceptions" and those where sold as legit imported,tha AFIP will be looking much more closely on foreign vehicles.Hopefully it is just anothe mediatic measure for tv and not a real "improuvement" in marking passports or restricting periods on the borders!
Lets just wait and see.
As more data is collect i will post here.
Karl

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Karl, you are certainly up on current affairs here, or should I say diplomatic affairs. If you want to know the inside story on the hundreds of luxury SUVs and fancy sports cars brought in by "diplomats" and sold to wealthy locals without paying a substantial import tax, here it is.

What started as a nice little plot to put another nail in the coffin of a diplomatic career had tremendous blow back. The diplomat was targeted by intelligence operatives from another embassy and when the blackmail threat failed, those operatives used locals denounce the diplomat who rolled over on others as a way out.

Some of the big boys at the big embassies took note and began cover operations for their own diplomats, operatives and locals, which meant turning over other diplomats, etc.... You probably noticed that the United States Embassy slid through all this, except for the very first of many, many front page reports, in all the local daily newspapers.

And that the photo of the Russian Ambassador, the Russians have not been charged in this affair, was perched atop a long list of the 40 or so "other" diplomats that were eventually hit with interviews from Argentine authorities. A special court has been established to handle those who are charged or will be charged, because most involved do hold diplomatic immunity from Argentine law.

As one might expect diplomats from Uruguay were hit the hardest, guess they didn't have anyone to roll over on and it is interesting to note that past diplomats are coming out of the woodwork to proclaim they are innocent. This includes past ambassadors.

This scandal has really rocked Buenos Aires because the folks here rich enough to buy the Hummers and Italian sports coars offered by the diplomats are well known and, oh my God, even famous soccer and polo players, and even more interesting from a reporters point of view, actors and actresses.

The only things better for the press would be if the hundreds of thousands of US dollars being brought into Argentina illegally, (some say from Venezuela) and confiscated at the airport from a politico, or the $800,000.00 US dollars en route to the Central Bank, that went missing between the airline and the airport, could have been alleged to be connected to buying cars from diplomats.

This is just business as usual in the most interesting city in the world. What this might mean to those wanting to legally register foreign registered motos in Argentina is anyone's guess.

I guess it will mean absolutely nothing, as long as the foreign registration papers are legal, all legal import taxes due are paid and the moto is legally registered in Argentina. But that is what this thread is all about. Taking the mystery out of title transfers and etc, with a little diplomatic intrigue thrown in once and a while just to keep it interesting...

Karl, mil gracias, and looking forward to additional posts from you and your friend. Every detail is greatly appreciated. At the close of this thread we will have a simplified step by step guide that might even prove helpful to the Gestores.

Thanks for the input, I see you also live in Buenos Aires, "wanna buy a Hummer?" xfiltrate

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Well, 2 days have passed and I finally had my meet with Patricia "GESTOR" extraordinaire!

IMPORTANT NOTE: But first, we wish Daniel a speedy recovery, and anyone with a bike that needs rescue on Ruta 3 please contact Tedmagnum or Javier. Please see thread "Do you need your motorcycle....on Ruta 3" With Tedmagnum and Javier helping out, I am sure Daniel and his bike will be fine.

And, it seems Ted is looking for a front disc for his XT600, please see his "Anyone flying into Buenos Aires...., thread.

OK , Starting this month there has been a new development regarding the sale of used motor vehicles and motos in Argentina. Now, any sale of a motor vehicle more than $30,000 pesos, about $10,000 USD must be reported to "AFIP." "AFIP" is the agency where foreigners go to get their CDI as described earlier in this thread. Also, any property sales greater than $300,000 pesos about $100,000 USD must now also be reported to AFIP. This info is from CLAIRIN page 13...Lunes 03mar08.

Undoubtably Karl , BCK-_973 was right, and this probably is a reaction to the diplomats getting caught selling high end vehicles to rich Argentines, after having entered the vehicles, on diplomatic credentials, and without paying import tax.

So, when buying used keep it under $30,000 pesos and no worries. Otherwise, make sure the sale gets reported to AFIP on the proper form.

Now, here is what I learned today, not much, but hopefully helpful.

Apparently not just any GESTOR can handle the Argentine registration of a foreign registered bike. Most good GESTORS, like ours, Patricia, have brokers that work everyday with the officials of the aduana (customs).

Patricia dutifully took copies of forign title and other documents, I will describe later, and in the morning she is off to meet her broker who works everyday with aduana officials. TO GET THE REAL STORY.

From what I learned today, an official of the aduana (customs) will visit the bike, as the bike may not be legal to ride on the streets. This official will assign, based on a ""predetermined value guide" of sorts, a value to the bike.

Depending on the assigned value of the bike, type, year, etc. (this is guesswork here) a % of that value will be the amount of import tax due to aduana (customs) before the bike can be titled in Argentina.

Also, I discovered today that there exists not only "tarjetas verdes " (green cards) owner registration card, but "tarjetas azules" (blue cards), available at registration or thereafter.

The blue cards "tarjetas azules" are new to me, but apparently are issued on request of the owner in the name of another person(s), who have the owner's permission to ride the bike. My Gestor told me this would include being able to travel across the Argentine border with the bike. We shall see, we shall see.

In my haste to keep you updated, the above data has yet to be actually tested. It certainly will be, so check in frequently.

And, we still need any data available regarding length of stay for temporary import permits for all of Central and South America. Also, it would be good to know which countries identify (place stamp in passport or link via computer) the foreign motor tourist with his/her vehicle/bike and which don't.

Tomorrow should bring you a "check sheet" for transferring a foreign registered title to an Argentine title for a motor vehicle/ bike. I hope, it may be slow going once the aduana gets involved!

If anyone has had experience registering a foreign registered vehicle/bike in Argentina, we welcome your comments. thanks, xfiltrate

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What a mine of information this thread is becoming!

I've been following it closely as it may well help us out with our South America trip, planned for next year, which has hit a problem.

The original idea was to buy a bike in North America (cheap, easily registered) and then ride all the way down. Trouble is my partner has a back problem which has recently got worse and she has been told by Medical professionals not to ride any distance on a motorcycle...!!

As you can imagine, this was not well received and normally she'd do what she wants rather than what she's told but she can't even get on the bike at the moment. Her plan is to be well enough to make it to the UK Horizons meeting in July, insh'allah!

It could be a problem on an extensive tour of Latin America though, which is where this thread comes in. If we can't do it on a bike, rather than just give up-Never!-why not fly straight to SA and buy a car? I'm not really into cars but I love the idea of a 2cv!! And I think it could be done on our "bike" budget.

What I really need to find out is if the same plan will work in Peru, as we have a contact there who may be able to act as the "local" half of the deal.

Thanks for all the work thats going into this, I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from it

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Beware the dark, mechanical bird.

Other cheap cars alternatives with high clearance and reparable anywhere in South America due to the simple mechanics are the Peugeot 504 and Renault 12, largely available in Argentina since they used to produce them there.

Do I have a story to tell. I am so excited I can't spit.

First, thanks Voteks and Crusty, for your interest and words of encouragement. It helps keep me going.

Yeah, I really fell in love with Jeff's 1974 Citroen 3cv. Repairs and parts are dirt cheap here and available. For a thousand dollars you can replace literally everything that is replaceable...We also test drove an older 2cv, removable doors, seats and fold back roof, unbelievable and cheap, cheap cheap!

Jeff is still on his way to the Falls, will return Buenos Aires in about 2 weeks. He was waylaid outside Cordoba by 4 beautiful Argentine fashion models, and it took him a while to extract himself.

No kidding, while he was having his gearbox replaced, (approx: $100.00 USD) the son, of his Citroen rally racing expert mechanic, rolled in from Buenos Aires. The mechanics son, and this can only happen to Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, is a famous fashion designer who hangs out with the likes of Ralph Lauren etc and of course, in tow, were four the beautiful runway models, who all immediately fell in love with Jeff. I have never met a luckier man in my life!

Anyway, as you know by this thread, either a Citroen, any other motor vehicle or a bike is buyable in Buenos Aires by a foreign tourist.

Now on to the next purchase. This time it is a 2003 Honda NX400 falcon, a great dual purpose South American tourer, I have one myself.

OK, how do I explain Francais? A young Frenchman dropped by, who is an exceptionally smart young man. He is 19 years old. He siglehandedly decided to fly into Buenos Aires, buy a bike and tour South America, then sell the bike and return to school in France.

Francais has been keeping me posted and asking advice through out the procedure of obtaining his "domocilio" and then his CDI from AFIP. He was kind enough to provide me a list of the AFIP offices that correspond with the various barrios of Buenos Aires. One must go to the AFIP office corresponding to the address on one's "domocilio." (see detailed eplanation of this earlier in thread)

Francais had an unexpected problem. His age! While he is emancipated in France, not so in Argentina, until 21 years old. So he had to go to the French Embassy and get a document stating he had all the rights and privileges of an adult in France. i am sure this had to be in Spanish, and then had to be legalized, at an Argentine government office. More about this process later.

Second unexpected problem was transferring $5030.00 to the bank account of the seller of the NX400. $5030.00 is $30.00 dollars over the limit allowed by wire transfer into an Argentines account. The money is in limbo.

Meanwhile, I will present here two alternatives, one use a credit card to extract large sums of money at Banco Superville located at Reconquista 330. While ATMs have a #100.00 to $300.00 dollar limit per day, this bank, and it is the only one in Buenos Aires I have found, allows withdrawals on credit cards up to the limit of the card. YOU MUST BRING YOUR PASSPORT AND GO TO A BANK MANAGER WITH YOUR REQUEST.

Or two, have money sent to you in Buenos Aires via Western Union. In both instances the cash will be paid you in Argentine pesos, NOT DOLLARS.

Elisa, Jeff and I have all withdrawn, on our respective credit cards Banco Superville (at location specified above only) sums in excess of $5,000.00 USD in less than 1 hour time.

SECURITY IS IMPORTANT, DO NOT WALK IN THE STREETS OF BUENOS AIRES WITH A LOT OF CASH, ESPECIALLY LEAVING A BANK. YOU CAN RESERVE A ROOM AT THE BANK AND HAND OVER YOUR CASH TO THE SELLER RIGHT AFTER WITHDRAWAL. THAT IS IF THE MOTOR VEHCICLE/BIKE HAS ALREADY HAD TITLE TRANSFERRED TO YOU!

OR, TRAVELERS CHECKS ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS BANK, AND THE AMERICAN EXPRESS OFFICE AT PARQUE SAN MARTIN HAS A PRIVATE ROOM TO HAND OVER CASH, SO YOU COULD GET YOUR FUNDS IN TRAVELERS CHECKS, CASH THEM AT THE AMERICAN EXPRESS OFFICE AND HAND OVER CASH TO SELLER THERE. THERE WILL BE FEES INVOLVED, FOR BUYING AND CASHING THE TRAVELERS CHECKS.

IN GENERAL ONLY THE LARGER HOTELS ACCEPT TRAVELERS CHECKS HERE, AND NOT ALL DO. FORGET ABOUT USING TRAVELERS CHECKS ON THE STREETS!

Francais managed to convince the seller to release the NX400 to him while the bank sorts out accepting the transfer. Francais is having "Pato," amigo and located a couple blocks from Mariano at Motocare, create custom racks and panniers for his tour. He has purchased needed gear, tools and spare parts at AVANT Motos, corner of Pueyredon and Cordoba. This young man knows what he is about. I expect him to be rich and famous one day.

Remember, he is only 19 years old! He is tri-lingual French, Spanish and English and a super moto cross champion. He was the man originally looking to buy a Norton and follow the route of Che Guevara.

He visited Customs and determined, as reported earlier in this thread it is illegal for a foreign tourist to leave Argentina with a bike registered in Argentina. Also reported, is a workable plan to do this and the fact that many foreign tourists have crossed into Chile with bikes purchased and registered in Argentina. Elisa and I did it at Paso de Hama 2 years ago, before I got my DNI (Argentine residence permit.)

Francais will update me as he attempts to cross into Chile, and I will dutifully post here.

Meanwhile, still no response to my questions regarding registering a foreign registered bike here in Argentina. My "Gestor" is on it, and I am sort of educating her and the Aduana officials (Customs) about the 1954 and later laws governing motor vehicle title transfers from one country to another for the countries who signed the 1954 agreement. Fortunately, Argentina and USA both signed, but the Argentines don't seem to remember this agreement at all. I'll probably end up putting on a seminar for aduana officials here before this thread is over.

Yes, fly to Buenos Aires, buy a 2cv or a bike and tour. Life is good. Let's all give a big thank you to Francais. He truly is an amazing young man. xfiltrate

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2 remarks on your previous message.

I lost/got stolen my credit card in B.As last year. Visa sent me 1000 Euros in DOLLARS thru Western Union. It had to be withdrawn at the central office in B.As (near the Obelisque) since other offices dont hold so much currency.

Speaking 3 languages is a standard for a young European, since learning 2 other european languages is compulsary at school and teaching techniques are now very efficient. Just spend a few nights in a Youth Hostel in B.As and you ll find out fairly soon.

Vorteks, I was not aware of cash availability problem of Western Union. Good to know that only the main office can handle large cash transfers. Might be a good place for the foreign buyer to turn over the cash to the local seller of the bike, or have 2 or 3 Western Union money grams sent to avoid being in the streets with all the money.

Yes, many Europeans I have met at hostels are tri- lingual. I thought it a select group of international travelers, I did not know that most young Europeans speak 3 languages. I do know that young Francais does, and does so fluently.

Still nothing from Francais, regarding "limit" on transfer of funds nor anything from Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, other than at a Police checkpoint RT. 14, he managed to avoid a $1,000.00 peso fine for driving his Citroen 3cv without shoes. I asked him how he avoided the fine he said " I just looked down and kept shaking my heard NO until they gave up" This took 2 hours....NOTE: Keep your shoes on for Police checkpoints with driving a motor vehicle in Argentina.

As far as the Harley now with a title from the USA and on the way to an Argentine title nothing new yet. I get the idea it is not done very often here and officials are scrambling to meet the request....I am on it. xfiltrate

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I am now in Buenos Aires. Can we , please, meet up.
Do you have a telephone number or e:mail address ?

Great news on the recovery of your friend´s Harley.

Gratias

Canxcape, can't give my e-mail here as per HUBB protection from "bots," but send me a private message and yes, let's get together.

Yes, finding the Harley was a great HUBB team effort. Attempting to register the Harley in Argentina has become a real chess game, with each player moving the pieces very, very slowly. Right now, I am waiting for my GESTOR tp set up a meet with her "Pochante" or customs broker. He will be able to set up a meet with the customs inspector responsible for placing a value on the bike and determining the amount of import duty payable.

This is not happening very fast, but it will happen and I will post here. There are several other "title" issues being resolved concurrently. Martin is also providing technical support, and I am learning a lot.

No news from Francais, I am going to "assume" here that his wire transfer, which exceeded the amount permitted by banking law, is still being resolved by the seller and his bank, and that I will hear from him soon.

Please everyone reading here, check out post regarding the missing couple in Tunisia, Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road. xfiltrate

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Used non registered in argentina are forbidden to(import) register by law,except you are an native argentinian who has at least lived two full years(with fixed adress) in the exterior.
The vehicle must be used and need an minimum of milage done.
Even so you need to pay the AFIP the 52% of the value of the vehicle that the aduana(customs) has in his records.It doesn´t matter if you bring an invoice.They have this magic table with values by model and year.Condition does not matter eather!!!
So i think it will be a dificult task to register that Harley propperly here.
That is why they give all tourists the benefit of the "max 8 month" tax free time!
Is my personal believe not to offer any state agent the idea of doing it by the dark path!
Ansious to hear more details on the process.
Karl

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America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!

BCK_973, could you please reference the Argentine laws, of which you speak?

Especially the law that .....PROHIBITS ALL,...... except "native" Argentines, who, have lived a minimum of two years, with a fixed address, in another country, AND want to pay an import fee of 52 % based upon a "magic table," used to determine value of the vehicle.

I have researched back to the International Agreements and Accords of 1954,spending tens of hours.... regarding importing foreign registered vehicles, and have discovered no such law.

Please reference the law, I do not doubt that some variation of this law exists, I just have not found it yet.

I have discovered that foreign residents of Argentina with a DNI have all the rights and privileges of "any" resident of Argentina, and I have not found the term "native" in any law. Have you?

I am sure, by now, you know neither my actions nor my advice will lead down the "dark path," if you mean by that, illegal activities.

I will not! And I will continue to advise others against the "dark path" as I have in the past, will continue to do so.

My friend, that is what this thread is all about doing things in the light!

Taking the mystery and covertness out of, and making the Argentine vehicle LAWS available to everyone to understand and to follow.

Thanks for your comments, I will continue to post as I learn more.

it will be helpful to reference the laws of which you speak. xfiltrate

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http://www.bybsa.com.ar/files/13092004/dec_597_99.pdf

This is the modified law.When i was in germany and wanted to import my german registered G/S i started the legal process in Düsseldorf.(at the argentine embassy)
They gave me this telefone number(internet in 92 was not so widespread yet) to talk to this aduana agent. He explaint me all the legal matters as being "argentino nativo".At that time was two years.Today the minimum time is less,1 year only.Read on the PDF file.
I will be getting the propper tax calculation the next days.
The above reply was not sent to your person Eduard.I know and you stated very clear "TO PUT LIGTH" into it. I meant the traveller who maybe is tempted to do the "dark path".
Many "gestores" are tempted to do the easy(Dark) way just to get your $$$$$$.
As soon i get that second pdf i will be posting it.
Karl

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This investigator of para normal events, like foreign tourists legally purchasing motorcycles in Buenos Aires, touring South America, and then legally selling or storing that motorcycle in Argentina, and investigating UFO sightings and unexplainable cattle transporting and mutilations in the Pampas of Argentina has been very busy "remote viewing" the fate of two road tripping Austrian tourists, abducted in Tunisia.

Just so you know, each remote viewing session takes more than half a day, and follows an exact protocol. It is impossible for me to view events in the context of time, for time is a man made construct. With rigorous effort I can differentiate "change" and, in a manner of speaking assign time based on observed changes.

Common belief, and international media, now indicate that data I posted, before news of an abduction broke, on: Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road thread, about the "missing couple" appears to be true. I have also posted the following in the HU BAR - a nice place where "anyone worth his salt eventually ends up.

"Please note the use of the word game has no positive or negative connotation. As it states in the dictionary, a game is played according to the rules, toward a specific goal. That's it.

The point of view of the captors (the ones who took the Austrians) might be that their "brothers" were also taken hostage and being held against their will.

I, personally, doubt the "brothers" in question were just doing the tourist thing in far off lands, and more likely were on some kind of a mission, with a goal, much more important to them, than just having a great road trip.

I may be wrong, but I believe the "brothers" entered the game, knew the rules and decided to play. On the other hand, the Austrian couple's goal was to have a great road trip, they went to Tunisia, a sort of tourist destination, knew those rules and decided to play.

They had little or no interest in playing any other game, beyond having a great road trip.

Apparently, on behalf of the "brothers" the captors decided to change the rules in the middle of the game for the Austrian couple. They have been forced into a game they never wanted to play.

The world has taken note of this event, the true heart and spirit of the "brothers" will be on the stage of public opinion no matter how this game ends.

I know, in my well worn heart, that this game will end soon and the world will rejoice as the Austrians return to their home, with a story to tell the world."


RELIEF AT HAND! Courage now!

As you see, I am convinced the two Austrian hostages will be safely home soon, via my remote viewing sessions, I have discovered much, much more about this situation than I knew during my initial posts. My problem is, how to share this data in a meaningful way with others, who have no knowledge of the effectiveness of "remote viewing?"

BACK TO TRAIL BLAZING

OK, I have some great news. I received a private message from a foreign tourist, who purchased a motorcycle in Chile and has successfully ridden across the border into Argentina. She obtained a "PADRON" for the bike in Chile, which apparently permitted her to leave Chile with her new bike. I have invited her to post details here. All you others wanting to do the same, should check back for her report.

Jeff Condon is due back in Buenos Aires, Sunday. He made it to the falls and I am sure my next post will be full of his adventures driving a Citroen 3cv legally purchased in Buenos Aires, while a foreign tourist from New Zealand.

Francais, a young foreign tourist from France, was due to stop by yesterday for a photo shoot before departing for his ride on his recently purchased NX400 Honda Falcon. He was happy with the rack and panniers custom built by "Pato" and some how has resolved his bank wire transfer glitch. He was scheduled to pick up his "tarjeta verde" for the bike yesterday. He did not show up nor call, so perhaps there was yet another complication. Will keep posting as information comes in.

We are about to launch into the Argentine registration of one Harley Davidson 883 Sportster, currently legally registered in the United States. I have amassed volumes of information and have taken note of the "Diplomatic Scandal" that has recently rocked this city regarding "diplomats" who have used their diplomatic credentials to enter foreign registered vehicles and then illegally sold them to Argentines, without paying the proper imortation taxes. We are going to register the Harley legally and report the process here.

Everything mentioned above is coming up, stay tuned. Please forgive my absence, I was spending time in the HU BAR seeking comfort for some recent misunderstandings.

Elisa, a beautiful and intelligent woman, who has ridden 12,000 K through 5 South American countries on her Honda XR250 Tornado, and who I am so fortunate to be with, says to you: stop running into things and don't fall off your motorcycles, it makes her nervous. Be careful out there. xfiltrate

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