A friend of mine is interested in buying a second hand motorcycle in south america, possibly off another traveller.

Whats the deal with registering the bike to him? Does he need an american address to register it to. Or does he register it to a adress in the uk (his final destination).

Also how long does it take to be registered in the new name, as Im sure he will need the paperwork to cross borders etc.

He plans to do the americas and canada then fly the bike out of the country.

Just my 2 cents worth from reading lots of posts on the subject.

Firstly buying legally in South America can be problematic depending on the country. Chile is one of the better countries to buy legally in, Argentina one of the more difficult.
Many travellers sell their bikes to other travellers illegally and the motorcycle stays in South America until it falls apart. There is only a problem if you were to take it into the U.S for example or export to Europe. Its easier for a US citizen for example to buy from another US citizen and transfer the title legally while on the road. I'm not entirely sure this is doable in your friends case. It depends on where the motorcycle was originally registered.

He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc. Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe. The shipping costs of returning from Canada to Europe will make it an even more expensive option. I personally don't see the point of buying in SA and shipping home. Some ship their own bike to SA but they are usually doing an around the world and perhaps have a lot invested in the bike and/or sufficient funds to ship it as required.

If I was him I would start in the US. Its relatively easy to register in many states, even as a non resident and he will get far more for his money than buying in SA. Do the trip in reverse and finish in Chile or Argentina and sell it to another traveller (he may even get what he paid for it!) No shipping costs required.
Or buy a small locally made 150 cc bike for under $2000 US which will get him anywhere he wants to go albeit more slowly.
Either way I don't think flying to SA, buying a more expensive machine than he would buy at home and then shipping it back is worth the hassle or the cost.


Lots of threads on this if you do a decent search of the HUBB using google rather than the sites search engine.

Cheers

Contrary to the post above, overlanders often sell their European or North American bikes in South America at seriously discounted prices. I assumed that was what the OP was asking about.

There are some tricks to transferring ownership. The way it's usually done is not totally legal, therefore seldom described in detail. There are also a few potential pitfalls, so the process needs to be thought through in some detail. However, if you do a search and settle in for some reading you'll figure it out easily enough.

Not sure why your friend isn't researching this himself.

Mark

A quick look at what's available on the HUBB currently in SA and the comparative prices in the US and Uk are fairly indicative of what I have seen over the last few years and indicate that there are rarely any bargains to be had worth shipping home to the UK after your trip.

A 2008 KLR 650 28k miles $4,500 US for sale in SA
A quick google and I found a US based 2008 KLR with 6k miles on the clock for $3,300

A 2008 DR 650 37,200K miles for sale in SA $3,500 US
For sale in US a 2008 DR 650 5,600k miles $3,600 US

A 2004 BMW F650 GS 56,250 k miles $3,000 US (has had a crash, electrical problems etc)
In UK same model 2004 F650 GS with 19k miles (also panniers, scott oiler other mod's) for $4,750

So add another 25k miles to the GS and you are shipping home a bike with say 80 k miles, and add another say$2,000 US shipping and there is no benefit to be had other than APITA to arrange if in fact its legal.

If he chooses to go down the illegal route which you mentioned, I doubt many overlanders who photo shop their title in SA would risk customs in Canada and the UK for a high mileage motorcycle with little to gain in terms of obtaining a "bargain".

The reality is bikes in SA over 650 cc are at a premium.
Generally demand exceeds supply so in fact you get far less for your money than you would in the US.(sure factor in $1,000 you save not crossing the gap and you might get free mod's you may have never put on your own bike anyway)
You might get it cheaper than in the UK but factor in the reality you are buying a Motorcycle that has probably already done a lot of miles, taken a fair amount of abuse and may or may not have been maintained very well and then after you buy it ( lets say 30-50k average is fairly common?) add on easily another 25k miles doing SA and NA.

Sure, occasionally you might get a sweet deal if its at the end of the season, they are on a deadline etc and I even remember a guy who gave his bike away.
But remember these bikes have been around the block and your going to give it twice the beating before spending $2,000 US on top to ship it back to the Uk.
If you can find any current "bargains" which would be worth anybody shipping back to the Uk after their trip I would be very surprised.

Would like to know the actual reason he wants to ship it home.

Well, if what you meant to say was that it's not worth buying in South America in order to ship home to the UK, that's a different story from "He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc. Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe."
I've seen bikes languish in South and Central America when people try to sell at Euro--or even American--prices. The ones I'm aware of which actually changed hands generally went cheaply. Javier's rule of thumb, which was to sell at the price you could get back home for a given bike minus the cost of shipping and minus the costs of the mods and accessories, has always seemed applicable.

I can't account for what you see reading ads on the HUBB. I see lots of people hoping for far too much money, just as I saw when I was riding around down there. Anyone can ask price they want; what matters is what they actually accept.

Mark

[QUOTE=markharf;418342]Well, if what you meant to say was that it's not worth buying in South America in order to ship home to the UK,

I was fairly clear about what I meant to say. My whole post was based on the premise that the Op's mate was going to ship the bike back to the UK.
I have not heard or read about a single overlander who bought a bike in SA that had inevitably done 2 or more tours of the Americas that then shipped it home to the UK because they thought they were getting a "bargain" compared to local prices. This might happen once in a blue moon. Hardly worth planning a trip on?

that's a different story from
[I]"He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc.
Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe."

You seem to have cut and pasted my statement to fit your argument or didnt read my post properly. I said far more than the equivalent bike in the US NOT Europe. I acknowledged that you might get a cheaper deal in SA than Europe. Ill clarify further by saying smaller bikes in SA are ubiquitous and cheap. As soon as you go over 400cc (actually even over 250cc) the prices jump substantially. This is regardless of wether the bike is new or a used overlanders.
My comment was based on the fact that at the end, once shipped home you have a higher mileage bike that is not a bargain.You save on shipping but the bike will invariably have done a lot of miles on worse roads with inevitable wear and tear. BUT its a South American marketplace not a European one and comparatively to Smaller bikes you will pay a premium for bigger bikes.

Im in a similar position coming from Australia. I paid almost 50% more for my triumph Bonneville last year than I would have in the US. But If I flew to the US, bought a bike with 30k miles on it, added another 20k miles or more I would not be getting a bargain once I paid to ship it home.

So going back to the OP's original premise of buying with a view to shipping it home I still say that its highly unlikely there are any bargains to be picked up worth shipping back to the UK after your trip. A waste of money and APITA to arrange on the road depending on where it was registered,who sold the bike to you and wether you can trust them or not.

["I've seen bikes languish in South and Central America when people try to sell at Euro--or even American--prices. The ones I'm aware of which actually changed hands generally went cheaply. Javier's rule of thumb, which was to sell at the price you could get back home for a given bike minus the cost of shipping and minus the costs of the mods and accessories, has always seemed applicable"

You consistently see US bikes, like the examples I gave, selling in SA for well above what the same bike would cost at home so the rule of thumb does not practically seem to apply in a lot of cases. So it was my personal opinion only that If I was planning to do north and South America it makes more sense to buy the low mileage,better maintained and cheaper US bike in the US, tour USA and Canada then go south where you are likely to recoup a lot of your investment from a fellow overlander.

Hi

I just bought a bike at the Brazil mini meeting off another traveler.
the whole process took about 3hr.
Rod at the hostel, albergue, hotel para motociclistas
was great and helped in the whole process.
I bought bike from a Englishmen and bike (German)Uk rego.
I'm from Australia and having previously lived and worked in the UK
had no issue with address and the like
the brazil customs was no problem and i can leave the country
just on the Notary and there docs.
On the Rd now and will recieve my new DVLA docs in a few weeks

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"Blat" Racin
Brake Late and Turn

Ok, I'm curious.

It's a UK registered bike. YOu have re-registered it with the DVLA using a UK address ?

The temp import has been transferred to your name ?

Details are needed for other travelers who may wish to do the same.

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http://www.ytc1.co.uk

Yes given the problem a lot of Aussies have had getting this done in the UK it would be interesting to know if this is doable on the road.

Didn't know there were any problems for the aussies

Hey Bruce you just answered it

__________________
"Blat" Racin
Brake Late and Turn

Based on my many years of experience as a permanent foreign resident of Argentina and the experience of several others who were foreign tourists who have benefitted from legally purchasing and selling bikes in one or another South American counties... you might want to consider flying to South America - let's say to Chile or Argentina where as a foreign tourist you can easily buy a second hand locally registered bike... and register it locally in your name ... perhaps an NX400 Honda Falcon, ride it until you are done in that country.... then legally sell it and pocket the money - with a little fix up - racks etc, you may even be able to sell it for more than you bought it for....

Travel to the next country, legally buy another locally registered second hand bike, fix it up for touring, tour and then legally sell it in that country. Pocket the money. - Go home with the money in your pocket or repeat the process... and always sell the bike legally before leaving the country where you purchased it, or park it and have it waiting for you when you return to that country.

Just a thought that might , just might be right for you. - never pay shipping or port fees etc, just purchase locally and park the bike for your next visit, or sell it locally.

xfiltrate eat, drink and be careful

Selling the bike to another foreigner has been a real dilemma, but I believe I've found the solution for this question, at least when we're talking about countries that are part of the MERCOSUL.

I've done this procedure already for Cadjuka and Kito, both HU users, it demands some burocratic works that would not be feasible for a foreigner doing it, but as I'm quite used with Customs issues due to my work here in Iguazu, I spoke with the right people and found a legal way for people being able to enter, ride and leave Brazil using a bike registered in someone else's name.

After producing the right docs, notary, receita federal(aduan), etc, for legal procedures, the buyer will have the TIP under his name, even with the bike docs. under someone else's name and the seller will have the bike cleared out of Brazil with no responsability anymore, so it means it's legal for the customs, police and other institutions, including airport and ports. The person who's buying the bike will be allowed to enter ride and leave Brazil legally, also will be able to ship out the bike to anywhere.

All the procedures are based on the 1969 Viena Convention and MERCOSUL agreements, the principles used are the same for exporting and importing among theses countries.

I'm based in Foz do Iguaçu, Brasil, if anyone need info about this kind of procedures, please PM me or email: rodolfofoz "at" hotmail.com

Cheers

Rod

Does anyone have first hand experience buying a new motorcycle in Colombia and taking it out of the country? I see different countries are easier/harder Chile seems like an easy option, but would love any info on doing this in Colombia.

thanks

The only flaw/catch I can see with this is that the new owner will not have the V5C (UK reg doc) in his/her name. This (in my experience) would cause problems entering Peru. (unless they get the V5C forwarded)

But otherwise it looks like you have solved a major problem for a lot of people.

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http://www.ytc1.co.uk