and that is the main criteria for success. Trouble is in a lot of countries/states/provinces that can't be done.
Still can leave the problem of a new 'owner' getting the vehicle out of the current country when the TIP is still in the previous owners name and a poder might still be needed. Might not be a problem in Chile but other countries aren't always so flexible.

__________________
Tony
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Hi Tony. Well here in chile it will work, that I know for sure. I've met people who've done it.
Other than that I guess yes you're right, there are places it could be difficult, but I guess one just has to plan ahead a bit. One option is to accompany the buyer between borders. Sell the bike after you signed out of one country and have buyer take bike with new title in hand to new country. Point is, people are selling and buying bikes all the time so it can be done!
I've already bought mine and I'll post here if I run into any difficulties

Dear rubin86 aka: definitely doable,

Have you happened to check how to transfer a title of a vehicle registered in
the State of Washington?

WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: Transfer ownership of a vehicle when buying from a private party

A couple questions - what address did you use in the State of Washington? are you not a resident of Norway officially?

If the address you have provided the Washington State Department of Licensing was in one of the following counties:
Clark County
King County
Pierce County
Snohomish County
Spokane County

You will need to have authorized emissions testing done before the title will be transferred.

How are you dealing with getting a new Washington license plate once the title is transferred into your name? This is a separate process.

What notary did you use as required by Washinton State to obtain:

"Vehicle Certificate of Ownership (Title) Application – Sign it in front of a:
notary public, or
licensing agent at an office."

Did you find a notary authorized by Washington State in Chile?

Remember, to include details as others might try to actually do what you claim is definitely doable and find out differently...

Please note that if any part of a title transfer operation is not legal - this creates a possible loop hole, so as not to be held accountable, for an insurance company in the event of an accident with substantial personal injury and or property damage to others.

Your insurance company will look for any loop hole to abandon their coverage rather than pay court costs, liability etc. , including bailing you out of jail after the accident.

Please be more specific regarding your Washington State title transfer for others -

As you have expressed you plan on not changing the title until you sell the bike? How do you protect the seller from potential liability if the title remains in his/her name? And, you while riding the bike incur liability?

Accidents due occur and even if not your fault will become your fault if your riding a bike with an illegally transferred title.

Could you be more specific - remember the title transfer laws for motorcycles registered in the Untied States differ from State to State.

Those reading here who are considering purchasing a motorcyle registered in the United States should carefully research the title transfer requirements of the State where the motorcycle is registered. (available online)

And one more question - about the TVIP.... each South American country borders the next country - there is no official "no man's land" except in a few cases where the border is officially disputed. You are either in one country or another
and are definitely in the jurisdiction of one country or another. If questioned - your no man's land title transfer was done in one country or the other. You might fool the border officials, but try fooling a real attorney regarding the providence of a title and that my friend is a different story.

xfiltrate

Dear Mr xfiltrate aka healthy scheptisim expressed in many words.

I don't really know where to start or what to reply other than that I have completed transfer of title in Washington, and am as we speak awaiting title and plate in the mail to Chile. It is confirmed. No speculation. I am not trying to mislead anyone.

I am aware that rules and regulations differ greatly from state to state, you can however change name on title without being a resident in Washington state. They require you to write a statement where you declare where you are a resident, and a copy of your drivers license.

The application was submitted to Clark County.

You will need to fill out a bill of sale (form found on the webpage you so kindly linked too).

Then you will also have to print and fill out a application of new title from the same. This application is the only document that needs to be notarized. I had mine notarized at a local notarization office in Punta Arenas. I cannot speak as to the legality of this, but it certainly was enough for the change of title to go through.

There is also a part of the old title that needs to follow this application, which absolves the seller of any further responsibilities. This is on the backside of the original title, it's green. A reading of the mileage will be on there too, and the document needs to be signed of seller and buyer respectively.

So o put all these documents together and mailed them along with postage stamps (3 usd) and a personal check (180 usd) that covered the fees. 50 of the 180 usd were for an rapid issuance of lisence plate. The following day title and lisence plate were mailed to my family in the US. They were then forwarded to me and I am now awaiting those documents to reach me here in Punta Arenas.

I can and will not entertain any hypothetical questions about the TVIP and the legality of this. I am not a lawyer. I am just a dude trying to work out the kinks in the road (pun intended) as I go along.

Rubin86, thanks for providing clear, accurate, detailed information. It's nice to see posts which differentiate what is known from idle speculation, and which allow readers to confirm or disconfirm at their leisure.

I live in Washington State. I've posted here in the past to point out that non-residents can legally transfer ownership here. It ain't rocket science.

xfiltrate, your research skills are no match for the certainty with which you sometimes post. For example, motorcycles are exempt from emissions testing in this state--as clearly indicated on the website you reference. Humility is a virtue.

I'll look forward to hearing more from Rubin86. Safe journeys!

Mark

Thank you Rubin86 for the clear and concise explanation regarding State of Washington title transfer and how you managed it.

And Markharf, thanks for providing the accurate information regarding emissions testing of motorcycles - not required for State of Washington title transfer.

I have noted that the State of Washington does allow a vehicle title transfer to a non resident - via a special request.

FYI, this is not common among the other 49 States.

I maintain anyone considering transferring a title for a motorcycle registered in one of the United States should check the title transfer requirements for that particular State for themselves.

xfiltrate

Yes, absolutely. It's definitely unwise to rely on unsupported and often-ill-informed statements scattered around internet forums.

On the other hand, this is not true. Anyone interested will find upwards of a half-dozen other states which make this easy to do--including our most populous. Just do a simple search, here or elsewhere.

Mark

Rubin86, great job getting this all figured out and doing the research while in a different country. It feels daunting to me trying to navigate websites to find out if an unfamiliar and complicated process will work.

On the forms you filled out and notarized in Chile, did you use a Punta Arenas address or one from the U.S. where your relatives live.

You had Washington state D.O.L. send new title and plates to your relatives. Do they live in Washington state? Were they sent there because WA state would not send directly to you in P.A. South America?

Was this transaction only possible due to the duty free zone status of Punta Arenas or could this transaction, with a WA state licensed bike, be done anywhere in Chile or South America?

Glad to hear this worked out so far.

Mark, i tried doing a google search to find out what states in the US, a non-resident could get a title transfer but I did not get any results. Can you tell me what you searched that brought up 6+ states similar to WA?

Thanks.
Tim

That small number of states might shrink even further if the question put is 'can someone not currently in that state and not a legal resident of that state get legal ownership of a vehicle not currently in that state and with expired or cancelled registration and owned by a person also not in that state and not legally resident in that state."

One or two left perhaps.

Add in "and not a US citizen" and it becomes even more problematic.

Tim, the biggest problem we face is that what might have worked for one person - and that can't always be assured just because you get across one border because some people come to grief years later - can never be guaranteed to work for the next person. Too many variables. Too many cases of friends in similar vehicles getting to a border the same day to have quite different experiences to think there are any consistent rules. In this case for instance, if it occurred in Argentina and some time in the future an alert customs official did some cross-referencing he would easily prove that the sale didn't take place in Washington at all but legally took place in Argentina and any drawing up of a poder was therefore done to cover up an illegal act. Next step is confiscation of the vehicle. That has happened.

Unless I have missed the border crossing, Rubin hasn't made good his escape quite yet, and even if he does, he will be hoping that the previous owners of his new vehicle didn't run afoul of officials in any other country because that also can and has caused problems for others.
Not saying that problems are insurmountable, but those intent on buying a vehicle under conditions they wouldn't entertain back home need to deal with their head rather than their heart.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

I did a Google search as follows: site:horizons unlimited.com states. That was all. It took the standard quarter of a second, and the following thread was on the first page of results: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nals-can-58648.

Coincidentally, that very thread appears on my list of recently updated threads this evening, ten or twenty lines down from this one. Who'd've thunk it.

Just for fun I skimmed through. There were reports of successful purchases and registrations by foreign nationals in about 12 states. There were also several reports of states in which no success was had--including a few from the former list. The standard ones described as easy include, notably, California, Florida and Texas--the three most populous states of our 50. Others: Washington, Tennessee, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. Then I looked up populations, and you may imagine my surprise at finding that states in which this is possible contain almost half the population of the USA.

I get tired of countering the same old tired, unsubstantiated claims from (sometimes) the same people. What's our problem here? Why bother posting all that stuff?

My state, Washington, goes to a lot of trouble to make this possible for non-residents, including foreigners. It's a matter of pride. Other states with large non-legal immigrant populations do the same (c.f., Texas, California, Florida). Why do you suppose that is?

Safe journeys!

Mark

Tim. On the forms I filled out I used my family's address in New York. Plate and registration was also sent to them. Although as far as I understand from the DMV an address in Chile would be fine too. My contact there was willing to send plate and registration directly to Chile, but because I had to enclose paper stamps for postage it seemed like better option to have it sent within the US and forwarded to me by courier.
It is my understanding that it is only possible to do transfers of foreign vehicles in the Zona Franca, but please don't quote me on that. In regards to buying and selling foreign bikes in other countries in South America you will have to do some research yourself. I know that it is illegal in both Argentina and Colombia. Good luck, feel free to pm me if you have any questions!

Mark I salute you

So are we back to 5 or 6 certainties then,

By my rules of logic, a single failure in a particular state may/does mean that success is not guaranteed so that state should not appear in a list of certainties. Sometimes rules are tightened - or of course may be relaxed - so a report that is not current may give false hope to those coming along years later. Also these reports will always be individual-specific and rarely address any other permutation of circumstances.
The only reliable way to know if a particular state allows a particular procedure is to find where it is written into law and then get written confirmation that it will apply to your specific circumstances.

Like it or not the question posed is very relevant because it attempts to make the process universal by covering situations commonly encountered in the real world both sides of the border, so surely much more relevant than relying on old, incomplete reports of one person's success in very constrained circumstances.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

Anyone considering importing a foreign registered vehicle into Chile via a Zona Franco for the purpose of selling the vehicle should read this article.

Zona Franca - Chile Wiki

Chile does not permit the import of foreign registered used vehicles - other than certain ambulances, fire trucks etc ....except via Temporary Vehicle Import Permits issued for 3 months (the time limits are subject to change) and it is illegal to sell (transfer title) any foreign registered vehicle entered into Chile on a TVIP in Chile. What can be more simple than this?

I too question why there is so much continued discussion on this thread regarding the buying or selling of foreign registered vehicles in Chile?

xfiltrate

The stories about the duty-free zones have been around for a long time albeit, slowly changing in the detail.
The renewed interest in buying and selling foreign cars to foreigners has perhaps surfaced due to recent changes in how to legally buy a Chilean vehicle in Chile although even despite the large amount on information on that part of the deal, there is almost no solid info on the other end of the transaction - being selling it at the end of the trip somewhere other than Chile. Pretty common for legitimate procedures to be broadened bit by bit to include illegitimate procedures.

__________________
Tony
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