Hi All
At the moment i'm following the case of an American guy living in Argentina for the past 2 years, he bought a 2001 BMW 650 Dakar from a fellow American travailing in Argentina back in the summer of 2005. The title for the bike is in the new owners name, but the temporary import paper is in the previous owners name. The bike was ridden last year for 10 day and then went in to storage and forgotten about, untill the owner decided to take a weekend trip to Uruguay.
Here is were the problems start.
The bike was impounded by the customs at the boarded as an illegal import because the temporary import paper was a differnt name than on the title, and also because the 8 month temorary import time had run out by 10 months.
At the moment there is talk of a fine of 40 to 50% of the bikes market value(based on Argentinan import price) and a separate fine the expiry of the temporary import paper, so far this works out at far more than the bike is worth.
What i ask is this, is this a case the guy has a chance of winning if he takes it to court and trys to fight it, or would he be better off saving his money and just saying good by to his bike, its a hard thing to lose your bike but how far can you go. Your thoughts please. Skip

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Do the best you can with what you have,
A stranger in a strange land now heading North South East West to.....

I think of personal experience a few month ago with a german biker who let the temporary import expire for a few days that you need to know the basic law.
If you know how this works,and allmost all knows abot the 8 MONTH PERIOD!
Do not extend this one.If you need an extra period extend it by the "book".
I asked an experience tributary lawyer specialized in those matters and he said that by paying the fee you get rid of criminal charges as an akt of good will.
By not doing so you can face prision as an intended act of smuggling.
This german traveller had to pay 600 US.(old gs 100)
I would hire an attorney just to help or give some advice of how to go from this point on.
I think Bryan does not deserve this situation.He could prevent thisone earlier.
Good luck you both there
KH

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http://vientoderipio.blogspot.com/
America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!

Oh my, that is a sad story.

I once asked the Bs AS customs if I could sell my bike in the country and - I swear - the woman's face turned purple at the thought. They really do not like it.

Just in case anyone is reading this thread who wants an idea as to how to avoid the situation: when you leave the country with the bike don't show the import paper. Say you've lost it. Simple as that. Smile and apologise "I didn't realise that it was important".

Also, cross at night, at a small frontier post. The big bosses aren't around - no one wants the hassle.

The Argentinian system is not computerised. They have no way of checking who has come in and when, aside form reviewing every piece of entry-paper at the border you came in through. And you, of course, can't remember the name of the post, except that it ended in o. "Somewhere in the north". There are lots and lots of entry points.

Even if they want to make an issue of it, how can they prove anything? At worst it's a telling off for losing the paper. Perhaps there's a fine involved, I don't know. But nothing like the problems this unfortunate American has.

I have seen an overdate/sold in Argentina bike go through into Uruguay this way, and heard of another.

Maybe this will help someone.

Simon

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Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

Some of the crossings are computerised so be careful. The control point at Paso De Jama put my bike details into a computer (was 6 months ago), doubt they're networked together but that cant be too far away.

They also only gave me 3 months for the bike & said they would'nt give longer than my tourist visa.

The control at San Juan (for Paso Agua Negra) was where Patrick got knobbled for being a few days overdue, that used to be an easy one.

Looks like things are tightening up.

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Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...rgentina-13293

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http://vientoderipio.blogspot.com/
America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!

On a related note: on the Chilean side, more and more of the frontier crossings have become linked via computer, though some of the small seasonal ones (such as the Bella Vista/Radman crossing in Tierra del Fuego) probably aren't there quite yet, due to communications issues. But the trend is clear -- both in Chile and Argentina, where I have recent crossing experiences, improvements in networking and databases will make the chances worse for folks with either importation or immigration issues.

Cheers

Just a thought,

Maybe you could ride down to Tierra del fuego. You have to cross from Argentinia to Chile and visa versa and no one ever askes for, or gives out vehicle-permits. To much hassle for the 10 km you cross Chile.

But.... I am sure they have these papers as they are a official border.
So, why not cross into Chile there.... and on return to Argentinia ask for a new vehicle-permit? Say you gave yours to the other border-station or lost it in the paperwork?

Ofcourse the down-side is the 3000 km ride down south... especially in winter

Maarten

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maartensworld.com
beyond-anywhere.com

TDF is a long way from anywhere to have those kind of problems.

If they started networking border points back in Febuary I'm sure they've upgraded more places since, I wouldnt risk it. Best to play by the rules & not let the paperwork expire.

Brazil is very lax on temporary imports & the three times I've been there I've never been given paperwork for the bike or been asked for it when leaving. Makes it a good place to stash a bike in S.America.

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Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

[QUOTE=mollydog]
The guy missed his best opportunity to slip through at the border. Maybe he
could have bribed the Jefe' early on in the precedings and been done.
A BIG bribe. Might have worked? Who knows, maybe he tried. (end QUOTE=mollydog)


Pat, this is isn't the States, this is Argentina, a civilised, modern country. You can't advise people to bribe their way out of trouble as you can in your easily-bought, backwater home.

Suerte, Dan






















Arf


PS Obviously I also feel bad for the poor fella who lost his bike to those Customs jobworths

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Que el cielo exista, aunque mi lugar sea el infierno...

My last post may have sounded a little harsh, and if so, I'm sorry, because it was supposed to be funny.

I was being satirical, swapping the lazy stereotypes of ´rich, law-abiding North America' and ´poor, corrupt South America'.

MollyDog was wrong to assume that a motorcycle traveller could side-step Argentine law simply by throwing dollars at the problem. A US rider can no more bribe an Argentine Aduana than an Argentine rider could bribe a US Border Guard. That was my point - that if the situation had been reversed, Molly Dog would have not suggested bribing the authorities.

Dan Walsh

PS Sandino vive

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Que el cielo exista, aunque mi lugar sea el infierno...

Irrelevant late night post deleted to stop Molly and I bickering anymore about politics and hijacking a thread. Sorry, Skip.

Suerte, Dan

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Que el cielo exista, aunque mi lugar sea el infierno...

Was it the kind of revolution you where waiting to see? or an softer one just.
Could you ride some miles there?would like to hear more about it.Pictures????
Que lo disfrutes!Que tal la cerveza ahi?se deja tomar?hahaha
KH

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http://vientoderipio.blogspot.com/
America is a nice continent,not a country.All people who lives in this continent are americans.Discover it in peace!