I´ve searched the HUBB posts & cant find anything related to this (given slow speed of this connection)

Last night in Cali I was talking to 2 guys who have just ridden north through Peru & they were very keen not to go back.

- one guy was handcuffed to the police car whilst they searched his baggage
- when stopped, the other guy had a copper jump on his bike & ride off, returning an hour later having rifled his baggage.
- generally stopped very frequently & harrassed, the implication being that money was required

Whilst not wishing to offend anyone, we´d had some s & maybe this was biggin it up.

Anyone had any experiences that they´d care to share, good, bad or ugly ? and any tips for avoiding the ugly ? (aside from less !)

I was lookin fwd to riding through Peru & your valued opinions will help.

Cheers
Scouse

__________________
when the road is straight & true, I romp ahead
when it twists & turns, I make the best I can - Lao Tsu

Peru was the only place on my RTW ride that I paid a bribe. There were several of us on bikes, but spead out by hours. Everyone got stopped in the same place going into Lima. The key was to bargain hard. The fine started at $100 and I saw a German couple pay $60. I was quite proud of myself for getting it down to $7.00 only to meet one of my friends in town who got it down to four!

Yep, around Lima is bad. Just north of Lima cops pulled me over and wanted $100. I got them down to $33 (now wish I had bargained harder). Went 2 miles further and cops waved me over but I ignored them. 25 miles further I was waved over by a cop with a machine gun/assault rifle or something who was mad as hell (I think he got word from the cops I ignored). I kept saying "no entiendo" (basically true) until he was so frustrated he waved me on. A couple miles further on my electric starter went out on the Pan-Am leaving me stuck. That kind of day.
Took some back roads and every village, no matter how small, had a cop waiting on the outskirts in a new Landcruiser waiting to snag me. The speed limits were artificially low. I liked Peru but the corrupt, lowlife cops kept me on edge, unable to fully enjoy the country, wondering when I was going to be framed for something. I wish the government gave a damn.

Yep, on the Pan Am just north of Lima. That's where we all got stopped.

I was talking to a guy in Quito who's brother was a cop there. He never intended to be corrupt, but his claim was that they set the salary impossibly low, knowing that you are going to supplement it with road side harasment thereby forcing you to do so just to get by. Dunno if that's true but it wouldn't suprise me.

We got pulled just outside of Barranca, north of Lima on the way to Huaraz. We were erm, 'speeding' apparently.

Think it seems to be a bit of a hotspot round there for these type of cops.

__________________
Mike


www.singapore-scotland.blogspot.com
www.argentina-alaska.blogspot.com
My little Vid: India/Pakistan

BMW R1150GS
Suzuki DR650 SE: Ride it like ya stole it. Oh, somebody just did...

For your consideration and advice on avoiding tickets and bribes.

My thoughts regarding the existence of bad, corrupt
police that not only instigate crime but commit crimes
themselves exactly mirror my thoughts regarding
humanity in general.

Here is what I believe. I believe survival on this
planet is much more difficult than it has to be
because of a very few really bad people. Somewhere
around 80% of all human beings are not only surviving
but actively assisting others to survive. This vast
majority of people believe they can make it and others
can make it too, and if they can lend a hand to
others, they will. and when others do well in life it
is no threat to them. These are people who can start,
change and stop their behaviors at will, These are
"normal" people who understand the anatomy of control.
Which is of course the ability to start, change or
stop.

Now in order to understand the police one must
understand the main function of the police, which is
to prevent or stop things from happening. .
Therefore, after a while as a police officers who is
Repetitively preventing or stopping things, surrounded
by other police officers who are stopping things too,
he or she if not already having been selected by the
police application procedures as a stopper, becomes a
stopper.

Society needs, as part of its control responsibily,
stoppers.

I have successfully avoided several speeding tickets
by simply sitting in the car with bowed head and
saying to the police officer now at my car window...,
"we really need to stop speeders, don't we"
Immediately their was such affinity and apparent
sharing of reality the officer would not or could
not give me a ticket. I have passed this on to many
others and all who have tried it, have confirmed my
results.

Unfortunately, some police, (cultures designated
stoppers) have also been involved in situations where
their very life depended on their ability of stopping
something from happening. This confirms the fact to
them that their very life depends on their ability to
stop things.

I believe, and this is validated by actual statistics
of police corruption, much goes unreported, that
between 5 and 6% of US police are corrupt and
committing crimes against society. This group of bad
police contaminate and recruit from the other 15% or
so of the police who do not fall into the 80% I
believe are good people doing a tough job to the best
of their ability.

Unfortunately, the best "stoppers" are the ones who
get promoted and assume the leadership over large
groups of other police. Now remember, police in
general are not starters nor changers, just look at
the stats on any activity started and run by police
like Project DARE which has, by carefully weighted
scientific statistics created more drug use and drug dealing
thanwould have been expected if the program did not exist.
this is fact. Or, consider the comical failures of every
police run community event, they can't even have their
own athletic leagues or police balls (social events)
picnics etc...because they are all trying to stop
these things from happening. I am not inventing this,
several reputable books have been written on this very
topic.

I am not sure we can even expect our police to be the
innovative starters and changers of societal behavior,
but if there is anything, even things beneficial
starting or even beneficial changings occuring in a
community you can expect the police to be right on
the scene to stop it. The court systems which also operate
as stoppers of behavior, not starters of good behavior nor
changers of society for the better.

So to directly answer your question for both North
America and Argentina I believe about 5% of the police
are corrupt and committing crimes against society and
that about 15% are in some way involved by the crime
of omission (not reporting the bad police) or minimal
participation in the commission of crimes against
society, and 80% are good men and woman trying to do
what is right.

One might say 80% really want to help others survive.

I am, in the final analysis a starter of projects and
a changer and yes, if I have to I can stop things too,
so by nature I have very little in common with the
police, and represent a threat to them once they get
to know me. You might be a threat to police if you
appear to be anything but a stopper too.

This might be a good time to point out that I do agree
that every culture needs stoppers, This is an
unfortunate reality that has been created by a
relatively few really bad people.

And, look what
happened to Senator Robert Kennedy because, as United
States Attorney General, he was prosecuting the
mafia/police connections in various cities throughout
North America. Even the stoppers get stopped.

There is a wealth of documentation
about this existing corrupt connection between governments
and mafia, the police are just caught in the middle.

I have no need or desire to be creative to be creative here,
the truth is strange enough. xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

I agree completely with Skip - why do people pay these "fines"? If there is a genuine offense committed then fair enough but some of the outrageous fines that these cops try on foreign motorists are obvious scams. Some locals would never earn as much in a month or more. Some travelers are so damned stupid in this regard that I have little sympathy for them but do for the next guy that comes by. What motivates this eagerness to pay?

I had no real problems in Central and South America and this came as a surprise given the number of posts on the subject of corruption.

Whether this one counts as a scam I don't really know. The border between El Salvador and Honduras cost me $50 which I am led to believe is higher than you are supposed to pay officially - not really sure which category this one falls into. This was always a notoriously dirty border a couple of years back.

I have a couple of things I do to keep on the side of the cops. Firstly I tell them I am a cop back in the UK - this develops a mutual understanding and respect from whoever you are dealing with. Apparently I can look a bit like a rozzer (suitable height, no pony tail etc etc).

My second recommendation is to keep a good selection of documents - colour scanned copies in your riding jacket pocket. That way you don't need to get off the bike and gives them something to keep them occupied. This one works really well. I had the misfortune to have a serious accident in Chile that resulted in my license being taken by the local police until the matter came to court. I had to ultimately leave the country without a license but despite another 5 months in South America in Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela and Colombia I never needed the original again.

Peru was fine for me - hardly got stopped at all. The north east of Argentina was the most obvious attempt at corruption but it was really rare in my experience. The old white sheet and fire extinguisher trick. It's just not convincing but I met a German biker who had just handed over $200US!! as I was pulled over. We talked about life as a cop in the UK and shook hands and that was it. So I left 16 months in South America without paying a bribe or silly fine.

I do wonder though what would happen if you refused to pay in certain circumstances.......

Have a good time in Peru - some damned good riding to be had there.

In all my travels in L.America, i've paid a total of three bribes for a total of about $73. The first was in Panama for speeding. I was clocked doing 110 KPH in a 60 zone and was written an $80 ticket. I convinced the officer to write me a cheaper ticket for $25. I call it a bribe because i think the officer likely kept the money for himself. The second was in Colombia for not having the required insurance. It's cheaper to bribe the police than it is to buy the insurance. It cost me $23 for over 2 months of riding. The latest was recently while entering Mexico City. I was pulled over and surrounded by four cops on bikes. They demanded $300, i paid $25. This was fear induced, i didn't believe they were cops. Fake police is a well known problem in DF, $25 was a small price to pay to get out of what could of been a really BAD situation. If i break the law, i'll pay a fine or a bribe...thats just what you do down here. Corruption started with the church over 500 years ago, it's just the way things are and it's best to work within the system. If a cop tries to extort money from me and my life doesn't feel in danger, then i refuse to pay, or play the game so to speak. I always carry documents that are easily sacrificeable, and never give my passport. Just refuse! Give them a copy or another form of ID, or insist on going to the hotel or police station and show it there. Don't let them search your bags, insist you go the the station first. The most common trick is "eg. Nicaragua.. you will have to pick up your licence in Managua and pay a fine... or you can pay me and i'll give you your licence now. "
"No, keep the licence, i'll go to Managua tomorrow." They really hate that! I carry two IDL's for this reason and just show them the expired one...they're usually too stupid to figure it out. Let them keep the licece, or just before you leave, ask for it back. They gave me mine! It's way too easy to just say DON'T PAY! It's also pretty easy to slag those who do, but every situation is different, and if your really breaking the law, well, what would you expect of others traveling in your own country?

Pays to be respectful, but firm that you won't pay because it is not right. It is just how things are done, but if you are courteous, but firm, they will give up and send you on your way. Having lived and rode in Peru most of my life I have found that being their friend is the easiest way out. Forget your schedule, sit down at the roadside stand and invite them for a Coke!

This last trip Peru-Brazil-Bolivia-Peru we made up T-shirts with our trip on them and "celebrated" every time we were stopped by giving a shirt away to our "new friend". Never had to pay a bribe in 6,000 miles!

Also speak good Spanish and stay away from Lima!

Toby Around the Block 2007 |

__________________
http://www.aroundtheblockmotoadventures.com/
'We build the bike (in Peru) for your Epic Ride of South America.'

Very interesting reading all & obviously stirred some thoughts, ta, much food for pondering ...

Now in Peru & wanted to wait until I had experienced said action ... bottom line is that around Barranca seems to be the trouble spot.

Riding from Huaraz to Ancon (south) we were stopped 4 times within 70 km (about 20km from the Pan Am on the Huaraz road and for approx 50 km along the Pan Am), with some less subtle than others in looking for funding.

Only 1 was very persistent up to the point where I almost left my gecko´s tail license and that took 30 mins of debate. Withholding the license & writing up a ticket after showing me a spanish rulebook looked koshe except that I hadnt been speeding & they wouldn´t have known without any measuring kit. The fine was 10% of UIT (some form of local community tax I think), and by the cops calculations that was 10% of 3400 soles, or around $100. The ruse was blown when I was offered a pay now fee of $50, as up until then it appeared that they wanted to process me officially.

Further north & south of this zone I´ve had no trouble & police are very polite & courteous. Should anything develop from Nasca to Cucso & beyond I will update.

and talking Liverpool FC is just a perfect way out of most situations

btw the Canyon Del Pato is a top ride, top tip Albert, and the rode south from Huaraz is a dream

Cheers
Scouse

__________________
when the road is straight & true, I romp ahead
when it twists & turns, I make the best I can - Lao Tsu

I had an attempted "shakedown" at the 1st toll booth north of Lima (PanAm)
Here's how it went for me...from my blogsite @ Moto Americas
Beating "the man" in Peru


All throughout my travels in Peru there were National Police on the highway at very regular intervals. Sometimes I’d just get an uninterested look, but usually I’d get a robust wave or a thumbs up. I found their presence to be quite reassuring. However, in doing my research for this trip travelers were constantly talking about one area notorious for shaking down independent travelers. I filed this location away (it’s north of Lima on the PanAm) and was waiting to see what might happen. Peru has toll booths every hour or so along the PanAm, but Motos are exempt from paying tolls. However I was required to find the way around the toll plaza…sometimes I’d have rather just paid the toll. Anyway, I was exiting the plaza and instead of the friendly wave I was waved over to the side of the road. This guy was good cop and bad cop rolled into one! He started with a big handshake, then told me that I had been speeding as I approached the plaza. I was going 45 (kph) and the limit was 30. He then pulled out his little book of infractions and fines and showed me that it was a 70 Sole’ (about 22U$D) fine. I protested (of course) but he seemed pretty stubborn. Before this trip started I received a letter of introduction from BMW USA, explaining my trip and asking any BMW dealers along the way to possibly assist a rider far from home. My friend Bob Guzman provided a Spanish translation so I had this on BMW USA letterhead in both languages. Well, I had put a copy of this in my pocket as I entered Peru, and I handed his to the cop as I fumbled for my money. In the letter it states that I am hoping to write a book about my adventure. After he finished reading this I told him that he would now be a part of my book. Well, he told me to put my money away, that we were now “good friends….right?”
More hand shaking a little pat on the back and I rode off victorious.

Thanks Bob, I owe you lunch in Fairport!

It is a pity to see that ex president Fujimori´s big sweep through the policeforce is fading again. I travel through Peru every year and notice that since he left office in 2000 the police is hassling a bit more every year, but so far I had problems only along the coast and mainly around Lima: up to the first 200 km north of Lima and about 60 km south of Lima, and Chaclacayo on the Carretera Central. Never ever paid though, just play stupid, dont speak a word of spanish, show an empty wallet and they give uip in the end. But for the rest of the country I find them still ok.

I am afraid to report that the reputation of the self - styled Los Angeles Guardianes (Peruvian Traffic Rozzers) as thieving, robbing bastards who like to try to treat foreign bikers as mobile ATMs, is wholly justified.

My compadre and I were stopped 3 times the day we travelled north on the Panamericana from Lima 2 days ago with the same routine:

1. Give us your licence
2. You have committed an infracion (we hadn´t)
3. You have to get your licence back from your embassy in Lima
4. Or, you can give me 100USD now and the infracion is cancelled.

We got around this the first time by just holding our ground, shaking our heads and repeating No, no, no, (a la Amy Winehouse). We also played reverse Good Cop, Bad Cop with him, confused him by saying that Gales and Escocia don´t have embassies in Lima, only in London, asking for his name, and hamming up taking notes and photos of his name, number and patrol car. After an hour, he got bored / embarassed and gave us back the licences.

By the time the third one happened in the same evening, we had got a lot more polished - I refused to speak to them, I have an almost expired UAE licence which I gave to him and didn´t mind losing and mi compadre just gave the paper counterfoil to his UK licence.

The biggest joke of all was that the last pig eventually waved us on, warning us to get off the road before dark as this area was renowned for bandidos holding travellers up at gunpoint during the night. I don´t think he saw the irony that he had the barefaced, no - shame cheek to try exactly the same stunt in broad daylight. Needless to say we got straight through Northern Peru the next day and into Ecuador asap, with a bad taste in our mouths about Peru.....

The most important thing to remember is not to pay these pigs anything, even if they start bargaining down to what seems like a little bit of money to you, as it will only encourage them to hassle other foreign bikers....

Just tell'em you dont have any money as you've already been robbed by a cop who gave you the same story !

__________________
Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

LOL! That's what I did the only time I was asked to pay a "fine" and it worked well. I kept a very small amount of cash in my wallet. When asked for cash, I told them I had no money, even showed them my wallet after a little time. Told them, the last cop left me just enough money to get a room that night so I wouldn't have to sleep on the streets!

Over all I was stopped 10-11 times between the Ecuador border and Lima! Only once was I asked to pay a fine (as mentioned above). The other times, I would stop, take off my helmet, crack a big smile and chilled out with the them. Most of the time, they just wanted to see where I was from, check out the bike, etc. One of them actually wanted to trade his $2 uniform baseball hat for my $350 helmet! Deal or no deal....hmmm? Funny thing was that my helmet is a giant XXL and he needed a medium. I laughed my ass off when he tried it on!

The photo doesn't give an idea of how big my helmet was on him!

In short, I think if you approach the situation pissed off and annoyed that you got pulled over again, you will be more likely "fined" because you are acting like an ass. Give them a smile and be polite and even joke with them, they will most likely wave you on after a brief chat.

Some friends of mine from England and Norway were stopped just a few hours north of Lima by some cops on motos. Yes they were asked for a fine. They refused to pay and during bargaining with the cops over the fines, my friends asked about the poorly maintained police motos. They had balding tires, one bike even had a worn out belt drive and I understand a replacement belt is mucho dinero. Anyway, my buddies found out that these guys had to pay for the maintenance of their bikes and they get paid peanuts(even by Peruvian standards). After awhile the cops warmed up to them and eventually won their sympathy for all the hassles they were getting from their fellow coppers! Go figure! How you approach these guys will either help you or make it more of a pain in the ass for you.