This another queation for you upto date experienced South American riders. I will be in Terra Del Fuego for New Year (I hope to see others there as well)and then plan to travel north towards the USA. I have read many reports about the roads in Bolivia perticulary the Altiplato as not being suitable in the wet season. I think I have two options -
Travel north of Santiago then to La Paz and Curzco before returning to the coast to continue to Quito, or go accross from Santiago towards Buenos Aires then north into Bolivia. I do have alot of offroad experience but I will be travelling alone and I do not want to be in deserate situation, does anyone know if where the tarmac is or is not and what is the perferred route from a road point of view?

Bob
Dubai

I traveled from southern border to La Paz and then to Cuzco. On the southern end we traveled dirt to Uyuni which was fairly desolate but good road. Some roads further north are paved and good. From what I saw in Nov 2001, it looked like it was pretty dry there year 'round. At least it was extremely dry and not much vegitation in 2001. Its a safe and enjoyable place to travel. Suggest taking a side trip to Corioco which is about 100 miles NE of La Paz. You won't for get it....

just hit the road from Uyuni to san pedro de atacama. perfect asphalt on the Chile side. hell on the bolivian side - lots of sand, but lots of fun. You can do it alone (600km of sand = a ton of spare gas and good chance to get lost) or attach yourself to a tour group and get them to carry your stuff and some spare gas (I took 20 liters extra and used it all...).

The altiplano essentially never gets wet - I wouldn´t worry. (but I just heard there is a inch or two of water on some of the Salar right now - mid October)
It is the Occidental area that from now till jan or something gets lots of rain. more and more each month. This would make the route from the West tougher.
luck
Lance

[edited to change "peru " to "chile" and add info about the water on the Salar]

[This message has been edited by y_kiwi (edited 05 November 2002).]

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We entered Bolivia from Northern Argentina in May 2002
http://www.ultimatejourney.com/chap104.html

It was the dry season, and the roads were dirt, but fine. There are some sandy spots on the road to Uyuni, but measured only in meters.

There is a train from the southern border town of Villazon up to Uyuni if you enter during the rainy season.

In August 2002, we exited Bolivia in the east, and re-entered Brasil. There is a weekly train that will take you and your bike between Santa Cruz (Bolivia) and Corumba (Brasil border). We got a quote of US$58 for both bikes, but believe the normal price is $50-100/bike. The sales agent for the cargo department of the RR in Santa Cruz was a biker, and was trying to give us a deal. The road that runs parrallel to the train is supposed to be not possible with a typical overland bike, but we have never met any overlander who has even seen the road first-hand...

We took a route about 300km north of Santa Cruz, through the Mission District and entered Brasil at Caceres/Cuiaba -- the RR sales agent recommended this was more scenic, and he was right! The road was good, hard-packed clay, and we were able to easily ride between 80-100km/hr.

Because the road runs parrallel to the Brasil border, there were many military check-points on the last day (300km). No problems, just checked the passport and had to register in their book -- no fees. Highly recommend if dry, would be impossible if wet.
http://www.ultimatejourney.com/chap125.html

If anyones has specific questions about either of these routes, email us directly by clicking the email button above

Suerte,
Chris & Erin


[This message has been edited by ultimatejourney (edited 30 October 2002).]

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Hey All!

I´m not a biker (at this moment) but I´m living in Bolivia for almost 6 years now... Know quite something of the country and the roads... So here we go!

From Argentina towards La Paz there are two alternatives. The Villazon entry is the high-land route, almost allways dry, goes up to Uyuni. In Uyuni you go either to the south-west into Chile/San Pedro de Atacama (not Peru!!!), ONLY TRAVEL IN GROUPS!!!! Other road from Uyuni goes to Oruro (good, about 100 miles unpaved but reasonable). From Oruro to La Paz and Peru: paved.

Other option is Pocitos-Yacuiba-Camiri-Santa Cruz, lowlands though dry shrub forest (Chaco). Camiri-Santa Cruz is impassible in wet season (november-march) and sometimes during dry too (occasional showers). Pocitos-Camiri is paved & great. 30 miles north of Camiri starts a road to the left to Sucre, good condition but first part impassible in wet season. From Sucre it is possible to go to Potosí (paved & great) and further to Uyuni (unpaved & good during all seasons). Road north of Sucre heads to Cochabamba, unpaved but good during all seasons).

From Santa Cruz there are two paved options towards La Paz (through Cochabamba and Oruro), both are beautiful and paved and good during all seasons), the only drawback on the northern alternative are the coca-farmers that ocasionally block the road (check local newspapers)

Other option from Santa Cruz is towards the Misiones (described above) and the Brazilian border (Cuiaba). Great alternative is to turn left near San Ramón towards Trinidad, 70% paved, unpaved part "regular" in wet season (which is from october to may down there). From Trinidad the most logical option is towards Rurrenabaque, there you could take the "unforgettable" road from Coroico up to La Paz, actually I would defenitily prefer to climb this road. Unpaved roads, slippery, deep gorges and from Coroico to La Paz loads of drunken drivers add to the fun.

Other alternative from Trinidad northbound towards Riberalta and from there into Brazil through Guayaramirim, only during dry season, no service available but gas.

Gas is available as well as tire-repair shops, but mechanics will be a real problem.

Do not want to scare you off but I would defenitely NOT do Uyuni-San Pedro de Atacama on my own. Several people have died on this road (most cyclist though...) of de-hidration, cold etc. It´s a completely deserted area.

Have fun and hope to join you soon...

Tim

Hi,

don't be afraid of Bolivian roads - it is possible to go thru.
Everything Tim says is right. I just would like to add, that you always find a truck to carry you over the terrible part.
In wet season I made once the entry over Villazon to Oruro - nice experience, but will never do it again....
One month ago I used the mentioned train from Villazon to Oruro (50US for the bike) was a nice calm trip (don't go on saturdays because they open the wagon not on sundays in Oruro).
The entry over Yacuiba is all the way up a perfect paved road, with the little exception between Camiri and Santa Cruz (I guess 130km). It is Chaco sand and I wouldn't like to be there in rain. But if your experienced in dirt and you do not want to use the train I would try it. Why? It is not that long and Camiri is a nice little town to make a last stop (maybe you can find a transport there). The dirt way over Potosi is very hard to ride and the bike will suffer a lot jumping over the stones.
So make up your mind. In the area of San Salvador de Jujuy (Argentina) is the crossing, where you have to decide.

Take care

Frank

For All Bolivia Riders,

just to add an update on the road between Santa Cruz and Corumba on the Brazilian Border.

Yes it does exist, there has been a new road here for 3 years, buses and trucks do it every day and we did it this week!!

We rode from Brasil to Bolivia, the first 100kms are good gravel, then comes 50kms of ok gravel but with potholes. Then comes 150kms of earth and sand - mostly sand and in places deep with ruts.
After San Jose, the road is good gravel for another 60kms, then comes the sand, earth, sand combo once again for 100kms. After El Cerro the road improves again until about 150kms from Santa Cruz. Then comes 75kms of bone jarring, bike wrecking road covered in fine dust. The last 70kms are paved.
The trip took us 3 days, there are place to buy meals on the way, but would suggest taking supplies for a couple of days. Petrol is available in San Jose, the town halfway along.
We really enjoyed the trip, apart from the sand, would only recommend it for keen off road riders with motocross tyres and enough fuel for 450kms.

Sian & Arno
Big Trip 2

the road from san pedro de atacama to uyuni is a fascinating road. bad washboard almost all the way, stretches of sand (not really extreme or dangerous) - but fantastic scenery. distance about 550 km. few water supplies, no rivers.
it's no problem to do this road alone, because there is a lot of traffic all day: tour groups from uyuni in 4x4's. they can help you with water or transport, if you're really in trouble.
max. elevation: 5000m
if you're interested, i'll give you further details.

good luck

In the dry-season, sure, but in the wet? If I hadn't had my mate to help me pick up my bike, I'd probably still be trying to get through. And the saltwater on the Salar killed his bike - hate to imagine what it would be like to be alone out in the middle of all that water with a dead bike and no-one to help...

James

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James Courtier

any serious traveller will make sure before setting out, that weather conditions allow to do any offroad route in the world.
I have been crossing the salar de uyuni in the middle of the rainy season (feb) with only a tiny water surface for about 1 km around the shores. the rest of it was completely dry.
beyond that, spending new year in ushuaia sounds a lot like beeing in that area well after the worst (possible) rains, don't you think?

good luck to everyone

We crossed the salar in mid-January, the start of the wet season. Going out it was perfectly dry, but an overnight thunderstorm turned the entire salar into a lake. Absolutely incredible, but it was all under water, up to 20cm in places, and very hard on the bikes. And then there was the mud in Chiguana...

It'd be hard to check the weather coming from the south, given that the last sizable town is San Pedro, a long way from the salar. Coming from Ushuaia north after new years is surely heading into the wet season (Jan-April) unless travelling fairly slowly?

Riding southwest Bolivia in the wet was awesome, the best experience of my trip, but I would never do it alone. Not a serious enough traveller

James

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James Courtier

I want to add my 2 cents, just so people seeing this thread won't get the wrong idea about the route. It would be very foolish to rely on aid from the tourist 4x4 vehicles, unless it is prearranged and even then it is not such a good idea. It is true that you see quite a lot of them but unless you prearrange to have them carry fuel/water there is not much they could do for you. They are already jam-packed, and if you're stuck in the mud and beg for a ride you will be seen as the stupid guy who tried the route alone on a motorbike who they had to accomodate, effectively ruining many tourists' jeep ride along the route. I'm the guy who pushed James' bike through the god-awful mud of the Salar de Chiguana and vice/versa.
James and I met two French guys that had paid a tour agency to haul water and fuel for them, but at first it seemed they wouldn't show up, which caused some worry. When they finally arrived the jeep went so fast the riders couldn't keep up, and they definitely didn't enjoy their ride as we did. One guy was struggling so much to keep up with his life-sustaining water supply that he wiped out in the sand and broke a rib. The point is to give the route the respect it deserves. The climate is very extreme, stretches of the ride are very tough and distances are very long. Don't assume you can go alone because you're tough. Better to wait to hook up with other riders/overlanders in Uyuni or San Pedro, seems like a lot of people come through those towns. As desert soul points out checking weather conditions is a good idea, just remember the Bolivian weather service is non-existent. And if it isn't it might as well be. The word from other travellers coming the other way is valuable, but the conditions are of course subject to rapid change in this area, as we found with the water-covered salar de uyuni after only a night of rainfall. Besides that, the route is so long that it spans areas of varying weather- for us it was very wet near the salar and bone dry but very windy and sandy near the border with Chile.
That's my input. Thanks for reading.
Arne

is my english that bad?

of course: when i'm talking about help from tourist vehicles on this route, i mean that there is little danger of DYING if you're stuck (breakdown) and running out of water and/or food. of course there is pretty little chance of getting your bike out of there on a tour jeep!

i saw a lot of vehicles with enough space for an additional passenger, and water should never be a problem, so you (as a person in trouble) will almost certainly be taken out of there in a few hours.

i agree that the chiguana area can be a nightmare in the rain, but if you're stuck on the southern edge, it is always possible to take the road via alota and san christobal to uyuni. this keeps you away from any trouble with muddy and knee-deep salt lakes.
apart from that, there are quiet a lot of tour agencies operating the southwest bolivia area from san pedro de atacama, so weather and road conditions are well known all over the place.

i still think, this is not the life threatening adventure that some people (maybe to push up the value of their own deeds?)obviously want to tell you.

good luck to everyone

OK Mr. Desert Soul. Maybe you're right that if you are experienced, confident, and ready for it, it's not so bad. I agree that nobody will let you die. And of course the route has been travelled alone many times. However, a year ago when I was considering whether or not to go this route, and if I were alone, I would have been irritated to read only advice to "go ahead, because the route is not too bad". It would have been a real hard, actually impossible, ride for me alone! I am maybe not as experienced a mud/sand rider as you, so perhaps that is where our difference is.
Regarding the weather and road conditions, I will point out again that distances are very long, span zones of varying climate, and are subject to lots of variability from day to day. A jeep driver saying the route was clear for him during the last 4 days should not necessarily be taken as a go-ahead. The long distances and lack of fuel and water leave little room for error in this regard.
So let's agree that if you're confident, experienced, and going in a dry season prepared for bad, cold weather, then it's OK. And let's also agree that for someone who is not necessarily at your level (like me, a relative beginner), it is not a good idea to just go it alone. I am not trying to "push up the value of my deeds". The value of my deeds comes from personal enjoyment of my ride. Embarrasment from getting pulled out of mud and taken to safety by a tourist 4x4 is not enjoyment to me.
Arne


[This message has been edited by Arne Bomblies (edited 04 October 2003).]

Alright, Mr. Arne -
this will be my last statement on this one.
originally i intended to give information to
the person who set up this topic.
let's see what he said:
"I do have a lot of offroad experience..."
so this guy should be "experienced,
confident, and ready for it", shouldn't he?
seems that we both agree:
in this case "it's not so bad".
and we both agree in the following point:
if you're NOT "experienced, confident,
and ready for it" - stay away from this
road.
so bob from dubai - if i put you in the
wrong drawer, please put it right!

for some positive vibrations, i set up 3
pages with fotos of this beautiful trip.
hope you enjoy it:
<a href="www.bajorath.de.nr/reisen/uyuni/uyuni.htm">
www.bajorath.de.nr/reisen/uyuni/uyuni.htm</A>

good luck to everyone