Chile border crossing

[franta]

My friend is headed down to Chile from Alberta Canada. When his trip is complete he will leave the bike in Punta Arenas, Chile. He will then fly back to Alberta and sell me the bike. I am then planning to fly down to Punta Arenas with the change in title under my name and start to make my way back to Canada. I am wondering whether or not anyone knows if I will have trouble crossing the border from Chile due to the title and licence plate change (Alberta licence plates are non-transferable). Unfortunately, due to work commitments we cannot meet down in Chile to do the exchange in person. Should my friend visit a registries/notary office in Chile prior to returning to Alberta and make some sort of an official declaration?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Dmwbmw]

What kind of exchange could you do even if you were both in Chile?
And what kind of notary statement would be of any value?


I wish i could give you definitive info about what you need to do, but i cant.

But i will tell you a story to give you an idea of how things work down here.

A few months ago i was riding from Santiago to Argentina via Libertadores pass.
At the top, where the border control is, i wasnt paying attention and stayed on the truckers road and so missed the border crossing, as they do their paperwork elsewhere. The signage is very easy to miss and the usual border control guy must have been taking a pee. I was 65 km into Argentina when i became totally aware of my mistake. I turned around but this time was directed into the border control area by an officer.

But my papers were all wrong as they showed i was still in Chile but i was coming in from the Arg side. What to do? Well, i just rode past the cars in the line, pretended i owned the place, and rode through and out the other side without stopping. No one made a move. They noticed me but didnt care. I was a little worried they might shoot me.

I rode back a ways into Chile and waited 10 minutes to go back and cross through properly this time.

No one mentioned what had happened, not sure if they had really noticed, or cared.

This has no bearing on your case, just trying to say sometimes you dont want to overthink these things.

[s445203]

One thing I would check is whether your friend would be allowed to leave Chile without a bike, having entered it with a bike. If it's a normal part of Chile, he won't be able to (Chile Aduana were very clear they would not let me do so) - to do so he needs to transfer the TVIP to someone for the duration he's out of Chile.

Now, Punta Arenas is a Free Trade Zone, and so the above may not apply. However, I'd double check it - try ringing the Punta Arenas aduana office.

If it's a problem, a possible solution is to park the bike in Argentina - there's no such issue there.

The rest I can't comment on.

[checkerdd]

What you want to do is theoretically legal. Punta Arenas is a Chilean free trade zone and as such is one of the places where a North American can sell a bike. To be sure one of you should visit a Chilean Counsel before you go through with it.

[xfiltrate]

I need some enlightenment here. After a review of regulations governing free trades zones (Chile), I was unable to find documentation authorizing/ the sale of a foreign registered vehicle/motorcycle that was entered into Chile on a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit in a free trade zone.

Info in English here:

ZonAustral: FAQ

And, what does the nationality of the buyer or seller have to do with the transfer of title? I don't get it??? It seems to me where the bike is registered in more important than the nationality of the owner.

If anyone does contact aduana or Counsel of Chile - please post clarification here, meanwhile I would not bet on the transfer of title for a TVIP imported foreign registered motorcycle being legal in a "free trade zone." But, I welcome any documentation to the contrary.

thanks

xfiltrate

[El Forko]

A friend of mine did the following to sell his UK registered bike to a Dutchman in Chile:

- Sell the bike and complete the re-registration in UK, so the new owner has the correct paperwork for the bike with his name on it.

- Meet in Chile, and ride the bike together to the border.

- Cross the border with the original owner as the rider, handing in the TIP and thus legally leaving Chile. (Aduana don't usually want to see the Vehicle Doc when leaving).

- Switch drivers, drive into Arg and then return to Chile - with the new owner receiving the TIP.

BUT.... As s445203 correctly stated, Chile won't let you leave without your bike - you must sign the bike over to someone else remaining in Chile before you leave.

So.....

Perhaps your friend can sign the bike over to a friendly bike dealer, who then signs it back to you as the new owner. Just a guess - you (or your friend) need to check with Aduana. (I lost my TIP in Chile and visited the Aduana in Osorno, who were super helpful.)

Or, perhaps your mate can sell the bike (Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile) and then you buy it back.

Might be worth emailing Alejandro Lago, who has a garage in Punta A and supports Motoadventura on their South America tours. He is a good bloke, has his own garage and speaks good English:

Alejandro Lago
Street Ona 0471
Punta Arenas
mobile +56-96401233
phone +56-61212737
email: alelago@123.cl

My last bright idea is to email Sandra at Dakar Motos in Buenos Aires and ask her if she knows a solution from within Arg, leaving your bike in Ushuaia. I am 99% sure that your mate can depart Arg without his bike, so there may be an option there. In fact, it may be as simple as doing that and then you simply arrive with the new docs and ride out of Arg and into Chile. Like I said, more often than not, the out-going Aduana just take you TIP when you leave the country without looking at it or your passport.

Good luck!!

[xfiltrate]

If we could have accurate answers to couple of questions, this thread may be even more helpful.

Originally Posted by El Forko

A friend of mine did the following to sell his UK registered bike to a Dutchman in Chile:

"- Sell the bike and complete the re-registration in UK, so the new owner has the correct paperwork for the bike with his name on it."

Question #1 is it mandatory for the Dutchman (buyer) to have a residence (address) in the UK? Must both buyer and seller be in the U K to legally complete the registration process? Do the plates stay with the bike and are transferred to the buyer, or are the old plates turned in and new plates issued? Must the bike be insured in the U K before registration? Is there any inspection or verification of vin # etc? Plate #'s are checked at borders...

"- Meet in Chile, and ride the bike together to the border."

"- Cross the border with the original owner as the rider, handing in the TIP and thus legally leaving Chile. (Aduana don't usually want to see the Vehicle Doc when leaving)."

Question#2 Does Argentina border request paperwork indicating the bike has legally exited Chile? If so, the paper work will be in the name of the original owner who exited the bike from Chile, will this be a problem when entering the bike into Argentina in the buyer's name?

"- Switch drivers, drive into Arg and then return to Chile - with the new owner receiving the TIP."

Question #3 Where and when does the buyer (new owner) purchase insurance for the bike? Remember, any legal (even in UK) transfer of title voids the insurance purchased by the original owner.
Having insurance is seldom an issue unless you have an accident and then you really do not want to be without it.

"BUT.... As s445203 correctly stated, Chile won't let you leave without your bike - you must sign the bike over to someone else remaining in Chile before you leave."

Question #4 what do you mean by "sign the bike over to someone else" ? I do not get this at all - is there a form for this purpose and does the "someone else" assume liability for the bike? What form is required that would allow the owner to exit the country without the bike? And once returned how would this owner than again exit the country without the bike?

"So....."

"Perhaps your friend can sign the bike over to a friendly bike dealer, who then signs it back to you as the new owner. Just a guess - you (or your friend) need to check with Aduana. (I lost my TIP in Chile and visited the Aduana in Osorno, who were super helpful.)"

Question #5 If anyone does actually check with the Aduana could the results be posted here? The question to the Aduana would be could the "someone else" receive a foreign registered motorcycle from a foreign tourist owner and later on release the bike to a new foreign tourist owner?
If you asked this question to 3 different Aduana officials you might get 3 different answers. But, I would like to learn what the Aduana has to say.

"Or, perhaps your mate can sell the bike (Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile) and then you buy it back."

Question #6 I have my doubts that "Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile" I have found no confirmation/anything to support this. Could you please post documentation. Remember we are taking about a foreign registered bike that entered Chile on a TIP - and then entered the Zona Franca. Documentation would be very helpful here. I found none.

Xfiltrate eat, drink and be careful

[s445203]

Well, I'll pitch in on the bits that I know and keep shtum about the bits that I don't.

Question #1 is it mandatory for the Dutchman (buyer) to have a residence (address) in the UK? Must both buyer and seller be in the U K to legally complete the registration process? Do the plates stay with the bike and are transferred to the buyer, or are the old plates turned in and new plates issued?

No. To transfer bike ownership in the UK all you do is post a form to the UK registration body saying the ownership has changed. They mail the new ownership form to the address you specify in the UK. Nothing happens to the bike plates.

Must the bike be insured in the U K before registration?
No. In fact you cannot insure a bike in the UK unless it is registered in your name. So UK insurance (which I can't see how is relevant to this) must happen after registration.

Is there any inspection or verification of vin # etc? Plate #'s are checked at borders...

Nope.

Question#2 Does Argentina border request paperwork indicating the bike has legally exited Chile?

No, it does not. The only time you need to be a little careful is at border crossings where both Chile and Argentina aduana are in the same office other (e.g. the one on the road from Punta Arenas to Rio Gallegos). But even there I think the "switch owners between borders" trick is legal, just needs a bit of balls.

Question #3 Where and when does the buyer (new owner) purchase insurance for the bike? Remember, any legal (even in UK) transfer of title voids the insurance purchased by the original owner.
Having insurance is seldom an issue unless you have an accident and then you really do not want to be without it.

I'd suggest the old owner makes a colour photocopy of the ownership paperwork before sending it in. This allows him to ride semi-legally while the paperwork is running through. The new owner purchases legal insurance just like anywhere with his new ownership form.

Question #4 what do you mean by "sign the bike over to someone else" ? I do not get this at all - is there a form for this purpose and does the "someone else" assume liability for the bike? What form is required that would allow the owner to exit the country without the bike? And once returned how would this owner than again exit the country without the bike?

He means transfer the Chilean TIP to someone else while you're out of Chile. To do this you find a friendly Chilean, who is friendly enough to go with you to Aduana and have his passport stamped with your vehicle details and gets a TIP issued in his name and logged in the Aduana computer. I personally struggle to see this part as the friendly Chilean will be personally liable if the bike overstays the TIP, so he needs to be real friendly. And I also don't think this gets you out of having to personally be there when you do the whole deal with the new owner.

Question #5 If anyone does actually check with the Aduana could the results be posted here? The question to the Aduana would be could the "someone else" receive a foreign registered motorcycle from a foreign tourist owner and later on release the bike to a new foreign tourist owner?
If you asked this question to 3 different Aduana officials you might get 3 different answers. But, I would like to learn what the Aduana has to say.

So I know that you can transfer a Chilean TIP to someone local - that's how Aduana told me to get around problem of leaving bike in Chile. However, I'm pretty sure you'll struggle to get the bike released to the new owner this way, although I have not asked.

But I have heard of several people using the "switch owners between borders" trick and it seems to work provided both the owners are there in person.

Question #6 I have my doubts that "Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile" I have found no confirmation/anything to support this. Could you please post documentation. Remember we are taking about a foreign registered bike that entered Chile on a TIP - and then entered the Zona Franca. Documentation would be very helpful here. I found none.

Yeah - there are countless fairy tale stories about the Chilean Free Trade Zones on HUBB. I spent a bit of time trying (and failing) to dispose of my ride in the North Chilean FTZ. My understanding of the law is as follows. First, what is Chilean legal position in normal part of Chile. My understanding is that Chilean CUSTOMS law:
1. Prohibits the importation of second hand vehicles, which means the only way for a second hand bike to be legally in Chile is on a temporary import permit (i.e. not imported).
2. Prohibits the sale of a vehicle which is not legal in Chile between two individuals

What changes inside the Free Trade Zone? Well, basically, I think customs law largely does not apply INSIDE the free trade zone, however, it still applies when you try to enter Chile. i.e. as far as customs law is concerned, there is no difference between the Free Trade Zone and the no-man's land between the borders of two countries.

So yes, theoretically, a foreigner can sell his bike to another foreigner inside the FTZ legally, but I honestly can't see why you'd bother to dig out a Chilean lawyer to help you with this when you can do it easier via other channels.

And people get confused by this bit - I think it's legal for a foreigner to sell his bike to a Chilean inside the FTZ given the above. HOWEVER, it is not then legal for the Chilean to bring the bike into Chile proper unless he's doing so with a TIP, which is not that much use to a local.

The only bit which makes me doubt this is the huge number of imported second hand cars I saw inside the Iquique FTZ - perhaps there is a grey way for them to be imported into Chile, or else they're there for parts which seems a bit strange.


Hope this helps....

[s445203]

And on the last bit of El Forko:

My last bright idea is to email Sandra at Dakar Motos in Buenos Aires and ask her if she knows a solution from within Arg, leaving your bike in Ushuaia. I am 99% sure that your mate can depart Arg without his bike, so there may be an option there. In fact, it may be as simple as doing that and then you simply arrive with the new docs and ride out of Arg and into Chile. Like I said, more often than not, the out-going Aduana just take you TIP when you leave the country without looking at it or your passport.

You can definitely leave bike in Argentina, exit without it and then re-enter without any probs - I've done it in early 2013. I am 99% sure that you cannot transfer ownership this way - the Argentina customs computer has the bike logged against your passport. When you present the bike at the border with a different passport (when the new owner tries to exit AR), you will have problems for sure. I honestly can't see much other way of doing it apart from switch between borders with both owners present.

[xfiltrate]

Thanks for the clarification from Sandra. I agree.

And, I found an interesting conversation going on in the North America region

Thread named: Storing and using a UK registered bike in America for 2+ years


http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...red-bike-67906

Here one might find a few very interesting regulations regarding not only North America, but the Americas in general - including South America, and UK registered bikes and riding permits for U K riders....

xfiltrate

[s445203]

While Sandra is indeed wonderful, it is not her writing this

[xfiltrate]

Thank you s445203 for answering my open questions. I am sure it will provide good guidance for those considering transfer of title of a foreign registered bike in Chile.

I am hopeful more posts will be as well researched as yours.

Yep, it was your time and energy and I thank you

xfiltrate

[franta]

Hi, I would like to to thank for all the information and thoughts.

My friend left the bike in Punta Arenas and left Chile. On the TIP is only date of entry, and information about the bike. Brand, mode, VIN number and license plate. There is no mention of his name. He did not have anything about arriving into the country on motorcycle in his passport so he could leave without a glitch.
My plan is to go in Punta Arenas to the regional custom office, where I will explain my situation and ask them to change the TIP to my name and my new license plate. I will back up my request with my new (Alberta) bike title and bill of sale which would both be translated by certified translator and notarized.
All these document are already done and in my pocket.
I believe in "normal" common sense and I would be able to do it this way.
My plan is to ride to Ushuaia but I do not know which is the nicest way.Which border crossing has a big space between the Chilean and Argentinian offices ? Do Chilean Customs have all border crossings computer interconnected ? I am just asking if I would have to do it some "other" way.

What do you guys thing ????

I will arrive in Punta Arenas on Sept. 12 and and I will start "the process" right away. I will let you know how it went.

[El Forko]

Just got back on line after a bit of time on the road. Thank goodness for s445203 for helping me out after such a slack post!!! It's not always possible to do lots of detailed research when you are on the road - but thought a
few ideas might help.

Sometimes we can make things too complicated. For example, once I accidentally bust the Argentine border without checking out. I sweet talked the Chileans to let me in (they couldn't care less about the lack of Arg exit stamp), went to get some fuel, and then returned to a different border crossing the next day to sort it out. The Arg border guard was more interested in my bike than my passport and was super helpful. Half the Arg border posts don't even have a computer, nevermind one networked to all the others...

Good luck, franta. If the Chileans won't go along with your plan, go to the border, the take a deep breath, stay cool, cheerfully hand the old TIP in at the Chile Aduana, drive to Arg and get a new TIP with your plates, name etc. Like I said, in my experience they just throw the TIP into the in tray and say "ciao!" And without a name on the TIP, it won't be obvious that you're a new owner. If it all goes wrong, play the dumb gringo. You've bought your ticket now, so you're gonna have to sort it out one way or another!!

That's what adventure riding is all about - adventure!! There is always a solution - it just depands on ho much risk you want to take.

[El Forko]

Oh, and regarding border crossings, Franta, the one east of Torres Del Paine national park (lost my Chilean map and can't remember the name) was a pretty sleepy affair with several KM of dirt road between the border posts.

Maybe see you on the road. I'm back in Santiago for a couple of months before returning north in November - you might pass me on the 40 somewhere between Mendoza and Salta!!!!