Hi,

may I have some tips & details on Kayes-Kita-Bamako road (near railway). Difficulty, time to pass etc. I plan to do it on January '06 on 4x4 LR.

Danek

Hi,
I did this two up on a bike in Jan 2004 so I don't know if it has changed much. Kayes to Daimou is dirt and sand and before reaching Diamou it's easy to get lost in the forest if you lose the track - we did by following the railway line which lead us to a dead end! The hardest bit is Diamou to Bafoulabe - lots of rocky descents and climb outs from (then) dry water courses and soft sand - this bit took us 2 1/2 days!! At Mahina you cross the river on the railway bridge! After that as far as Kati it's typical African corrugated dirt roads. At Kati you join the tarmac into Bamako. We had a day's stop in Kita so altogether it took us 6 days! I'm sure most people take a lot less! With a LR you should have no trouble at all. The countryside as far as Bafoulabe is stunning and worth not hurrying.
Peter

[This message has been edited by greynomads (edited 24 October 2005).]

Peter thanks for this info. I plan to be doing this same trip in a 10 tonne 4x4 Mercedes truck equiped with massive sand/mud tyres sometime next year. After reading of your experiences I'm a tad worried that the truck might be too big-9 metres long;2.4 wide- or the slopes too steep. Do you think I'm right to be worried? I could come in via Mauretania instead which looks more straight forward.

Regards Quintin

There's an new tarred road from Bamako to Kayes, which should be ready by this time. This road follows the old track north of the railway and passes along Diema (100 km south of Nioro de Sahel). The easiest way from Europe to Bamako is going from Nouakchott to Ayoun el Atrous along de Route d'Espoir (Nouakchott - Nema) Then take de new tarred road from Ayoun to Nioro de Sahel (as far I know this road is not yet on the Michelin map). There's a rather difficult part between Nioro and Diema. Here you meet up with the new road from Kayes to Bamako.

Hi Quintin

Kayes, Diamou, Bafoulabe, Mahina, Kati into Bamako. No problem at all for your truck, you should opt for this route, absolutely beautiful. Although I would not recommend to do it in the wet season. Don't expect much traffic...

There is a good description of this route in Daerr Durch Afrika

Have a safe trip
Albert

Hey thanks guys. This is really useful and of course inspires me, all the more, to get it together. I've still got to do loads of work on the truck of which the most urgent is to change the axle ratios and fit a Telma retarder. In the end though, I may have to give Senegal, and thus this route in, a miss- beatiful though it is-as the Carnet will probably break the bank!

Thanks again

Q

With a car less than 5 years old, do you need a carnet for Senegal?
I am confused - can anyone enlighten me please!

Hi Quintin,
From Bafoulabe onwards your truck will definitely not have any problems - the people caught up in your dust cloud will though! From my recollection, there are parts of the track from Kayes to Diamou that are a bit narrow. My main concern though is the effect of a 10-ton truck on this, IMHO, ecologically fragile area between Diamou and Bafoulabe. The track is already carved up by 4x4s and there are quite a few villages on the route which you go right through - the people here are poor and don't have much. They will be pleased to see you, without a doubt, but your truck will not do there villages much good.
I wouldn't say don't do it, this area is fantastic, but just think about the overall effect your truck might have.
Regards,
Peter
PS The railway bridge at Mahina is quite narrow too!

Hi, just to add to the reflections:
In early 2004 the Razel road working depot at Diema had no prospects of a contract to replace the 180 km of murderous artic-size corrugations between Diema and Didieni.

This route from Kayes to Bam is really boring, Some friends followed the railway and made me very jealous telling me all about it.
Scary as the railway bridge may be, train carriages are 2.5m wide so you'll get over it

I propose the perhaps controversial opinion that a 10 tonne truck on fat 20 inch tyres does less damage than a car on 16 inchers:

The footprint is bigger, so less ground pressure.
The power to weight and power to footprint ratios mean the truck pushes slower on the ground and is less likely to wheelspin.
The overall average speed of a truck is considerably lower than that of a TLC or LR.

If your truck's new the Senegal carnet issue doesn't apply, if it's old the value you declare to the RAC doesn't have to strictly reflect what it's worth or for what you've insured it (if you bother, see other posts)

Do get a "carte grise internationale" wich states that your vehicle is an "autocaravane" and mentions its "puissance fiscale"
When you go and buy your Carte Brune go in a taxi, if the insurers see the truck they'll simply hit you for all you've got. (I learnt the hard way)

Happy trails
Luke

Hi Luke,
Yes, that 180kms from Diema to Didieni was murder - it didn't seem to matter where you rode and as for the dust clouds from the artics!!
I don't disagree with your views on the effects of fat tyres, but I just wanted to inject a thought about the effects of big trucks on this part of the world and for this to be taken into account. If you or anybody else contemplating this route is happy with this then no problem. I agree that speeding TLCs and LRs probably cause more damage - the ones I saw certainly did!
Regards, Peter

Most things pass in moderation.
One or two trucks a month aren't going to do more damage than the next rains.

Fifty trucks a day and you've got massive erosion, corrugations and paralell tracks through the bush to avoid them, which in turn become corrugated and the cycle continues.

In fact, the occasional truck probably helps by packing the soil, repairing rain gullies and keeping the infrastructure open.

Whatever, IMHO the most important is to go, see and then form one's own opinion.
I'm trying to forget what I thought so that I have an excuse to go again (funny how once you've had a taste of Africa you need more; and it doesn't seem to matter which end of the continent either)...

Thanks everyone for all this useful info.

A number of points;
a) I simply cannot work out what is the point of Carnets. If Senegal is the only country in the region which insists on a Carnet but only for vehicles more than 5 years old (why 5 years!?) then surely less people are going to go there. Take my truck, it's 12 years old but in perfect condition. However, because it's 4x4 and a proper camper-the inside is a cross between an IKEA store and a Swedish sauna(!)it's worth about £20K. Result: the cost of the Carnet is murderous and unless I'm prepared to bribe at the border (which judging by past form in Mali I'd probably be crap at), I simply won't bother going to Senegal with the result that there is a loss of CFAs to their economy.

b) The discussion about the environmental impact of vehicles is interesting. The first point to make is that most of the 'small' 4x4s are local and form an essential ingredient of the local economy. My experience is the concept of environmental impact amongst the locals is ..........zero. This is unsuprising in deeply poor countries where the land/roads etc etc are simply a means to an end-if you'll pardon the pun!. Mali, for example when I last looked, was said to be the 5th poorest country in the world. Secondly, I have worried about taking a large truck to Africa and it's effect generally however I am encoraged by what you've said-well some of you anyway! I suspect that it will do rather less damage than a speeding 4x4. Fast it certainly is not and with 4 14.5 wide tyres spread over I guess 8 tonnes in fact I don't think it'll do much damage. Unless of course it meets a train on the railway bridge.

I'll let you know how I get on. Particularly grateful for the Insurance tip. Actually it's been very tricky to get insurance for it here in the UK. After much effort I got insurance from the NFU who demanded over £500 which I think is outrageous. Can anyone else come up with any suggestions?

Thanks again

Q

Hi,

I have never expected that simply asked question shall rise such a serious rumor.

I agree, to some extend, with those who tell that we should keep ourselfs in Europe, not taking any attempts to African people, nature & culture. But we, Europeans, did it continiously for centuries.

I even agree, to some extend, with all saying that we should not disturbe native African villigers, showing them 10-tonn trucks, 4WD cars and so on ...

Simply showing an example of modern civilization. Let's keep them isolated, shouldn't we?. Otherwise they may/shall impact our society.

No way! Power generators in rural places are used mostly for powering TV-sets & in-fact, a social utilisation, where CNN, BBC and others, say: pay-TV programs are all available.

Therefore do not blame us, travellers, for general sins, we are not responsible for them. Our influence is marginal, and the best solution for not invadeing them is language poverty, no giving cadeau and putrefy of border/police post officers.

Anyone may help me to plan Timbuktu, Dogonland, Mossiland road to Quagadougou, then Accra trip?

Brgds

Danek

Hey, I seem to have touched a raw nerve here! No way am I suggesting we shouldn't go to these places - in whatever vehicle we choose - or I wouldn't be travelling myself. I was merely trying to inject a view to consider any impact any traveller might have. I think you will find that the villagers you meet in the bush before Bafoulabe (the area I was talking about) do not have electricity, TV, etc - they were really pleased to trade our fruit and vegetables, etc for water from their wells. Yes you will see the modern trappings in Bamako, Mopti and even Timbuctou and Dogon country and mostly, I would suggest, because of the income from tourism, but not everybody benefits as you will find out. None of us gets it totally right but at least we can try!

Hi Danek
The best route down from Tombouctou is down to Douentza. The piste has been recently (2004) improved such that Toyota mini busses have done the trip. But I do not recommend you try it at night especially in convoy-like driving in fog. Should take 4-5 hours. The piste is well marked.

The Campement in Douentza is OK but basic and they will send out for a !. From Douentza you can head South west down to Sanga but my favourite place to base yourself in the Dogon is the village of Songo which is far less touristy. This is a fascinating place anyway-don't miss the cicumcision area! but the Campement is really good Sleep on roof for next to nothing or in huts for not much more. Great people and good food. Songo is about 20Km North West of Bandiagara off the Mopti road.

From there you can head south to see the Falaise villages before joining the piste to Koro which leads to Burkina about 50KM further on. To get the best out of the Dogon I would reall recommend getting a local guide which you can pick up in Songo or Sanga for perhaps 3000CFA indeed I think it may now be compulsory.

Hope this helps

Q