I'm with Noel on this. Virtually every educated local I've met in Africa has expressed that they wished all the NGO's, the UN, and all other "do gooders" would leave their country ASAP. The sad truth is that many of these so-called "helpers" are more into it for their own benefit (job, building a flashy looking CV etc). Some of the worst I have met have by the way been people associated with the Peace Corp...

Most of the "help" Africa receives ends up making both the people and the nations even more dependent than they were from before. It basically creates nations of beggers, and beggers out of nations.

So pick any potential project very carefully,if you genuinely want to help them, and not just make yourself feel better by thinking you're helping them.

Erik

okay...cheers guys....I am clearly getting the picture.

My volunteering is not something I want to do because I seek to increase my karma points, I can assure you. If anything it is far more to do with learning about the cultures, the people, the way of life, and if at the same time I can offer something then all the better. I aimed to study African Studies at Uni but missed the boat, in fact travelling got in the wyay. I have a deep-rooted interest, curiosity and passion for Africa. It would be amazing to become, if at all possible, for a short while, part of a community.

We shall see where my travels take me.

Thanks for the input and I am sure I will stay far far far away from western organised project.

Cheers!

__________________
Don't be scared your life may end,
Be scared that it may never begin.......

For all the contributions here about NGOs and the like --- Thanks!

I mirror your sentiments, expressed here far more eloquently than I have managed in one or two other threads on occasions.
There is a clear and over-whelming theme which is gratifying in a funny sort of way; sometimes you think that you are alone in "seeing through" the hype etc associated with the "Aid Industry".

Charlotte,
Good luck with your aspirations: I have only very slight experience in the Dark Continent, but I reckon that if you travel around with your eyes & mind wide open you will find what you are looking for and recognise it when you do!


Dave

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Dave

CG;
Poverty is a complex predicament and the aid industry surrounding it has a cast of characters and organizations equally complex, and interesting. Eric D and Bossies are right on about this. Your wish to help in any manner is admirable as is your solicitation for info.


BUT wow Bossies and Erik D...you guys must be experts in alleviating poverty based on your judgements of Peace Corps...could you please please please share with us your solution before you accept the Nobel Prize

The Peace Corps is a highly respected agency but is not an NGO or a charity. It has been recommended for the Nobel Prize a number of times in recent years and if you do your research, you'd note that its one of the most respected aid organizations in the world. But just like with any character/organization in this field there are some bad apples that accompany the good ones.

__________________
edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

[QUOTE=MotoEdde;143311]CG;
BUT wow Bossies and Erik D...you guys must be experts in alleviating poverty based on your judgements of Peace Corps...could you please please please share with us your solution before you accept the Nobel Prize
QUOTE]

Well if you review what I said you will find it to be true regarding Peace Corps. Check their website.
They only accept you if you volunteer for more than 1 year.
They don't work with other NGO's
They don't readily provide information on potential opportunities
They have a "We will save you from yourself" attitude.
I was surprised how many volunteers are more excited about PC on their CV then the work they are actually going to do.

I am Namibian where PC have a ongoing mission supplying teachers. I worked in the north of Namibia for a number of years building schools and clinics and watched the PC come and go and befriended a number of them and still keep contact with them...

VSO who are also active in Namibia are not too disimilar to PC but they do interact more with local initiatives outside their sphere of influence.

These big charitable NGO's need to start thinking outside the box and develop projects that help locals help themselves. Teach teachers to teach, do not provide teachers for pupils.

__________________
If there's a will there's a way so I will anyway!
http://www.buyaikhaya.blogspot.com

CG - two links I've found that might be interesting for you:
YOU ARE INVITED TO OUR ORPHANAGE CENTER - Thorn Tree Forum - Lonely Planet
Volunteer in Kenya for FREE in August!! - Thorn Tree Forum - Lonely Planet

Kira

cancel your RTW trip and start a profitable business in a poor country. Will do some good,
and you'll learn a hell of a lot more about those fascinating "cultures".


"We do no benevolences whose first benefit is not for ourselves." (Mark Twain)

Hi all,

as with a lot of threads here, this one has become more and more interesting as it deviated further away from the original request... but at least it also shows that, not only for overlanders and travellers, it remains always a good topic to discuss over a - or, the new alternative indeed to the local pub, the bulletin board...

I find it most amazing that the strongest opinions seem to come from people who have, let's be honest, zero experience, other than just seeing it from a distance, on television, or reading an article of a fiasco (a very good one for that matter - perfect example of the huge mistakes that have been made and still are being made) that dates from years ago.

Let me first of all say that I am part of the 'evil' humanitarian business. I am the country director of one of those multi-national NGO's (I do quite like the use of the term 'multi-national' here - it immediately makes it sound the equivalent of Chiquita, BP, or alike), working in a country where most of you (and that included myself when I was overlanding in Africa - yes, I have traveled 7 months through Africa, so I have experienced that part as well) would hardly dare to travel through. We work mainly with refugees, and amongst other activities 'run' a refugee camp quite in the middle of the desert, providing amongst other services daily water for 27,000 refugees (300,000 liter water a day, every day - try to do that with grass-root work in a place where last year there was 4 days of rain, and where there is hardly or no wells - and despite hydrogeological surveys, not to be found either), primary and secondary health services, education, protection programs - and I won't bother you more with the other ones).

Arrogant to think that a lot of those people would be dead now if it weren't for the assistance we (or more in general the 'evil' humanitarian business) are providing them, either of plain and simple thurst or hunger, dyphteria, typhoid, cholera - or any other ones of your choice... Less true because it is arrogant? Don't think so... but maybe other people who have actually been in those refugee camps might have a better opinion about it...

Is it a business? Of course it is - how else would you run an organisation, humanitarian or not... Are our staff more or less motivated than volunteers just because they are paid? I doubt it... Do we have overhead that has no direct benefit for the beneficiaries? Again, of course - but have you thought about all the overhead that went into the apple that you bought this morning in the supermarket? Why would that overhead be less in providing a service to refugees, especially in a country where everything is hugely expensive, where 40% of my fleet has been carjacked in 2 months (yes, we are one of those white Landcruiser driving organisations - but to make it maybe less bad for you, not the shiny UN ones...), where I have curfew as of 6pm so I have at least to try and make life for staff working in those conditions for 12 or more months as bearable as possible, where power and water is non-existing so yes, I do need a generator to run things or water tanks to prevent my staff starting to get really smelly after a few days...

Am I (or my colleagues for that matter - I take myself the liberty to speak a bit on behalf of...) looking down on small grass-root organisations doing fantastic field-work? Not at all, on the contrary even - but let's also be realistic, and see the things they are not able to do, just because of scale... and as someone in the thread pointed out quite rightly, skilled people is also pretty essential - which again does not mean I consider them all as unskilled, on the contrary - but a bleeding heart sentiment is in this world just not sufficient anymore. I know very well that running an orphanage looks very useful and can be very rewarding - but people tend to forget (or just don't know) that very often orphanages are used by local people to put their kids there just because they think they will have a better future, or because the family structures have changed and the new father does not accept the kids, or a lot more other reasons you can think of.

I could give a lot more examples but that is not the point of this reply - I just wanted to point out that the situation is a bit more complicated than it might seem from a distance - or even when having seen it with your eyes when traveling or overlanding. Yes, the 'big' humanitarian world has made enormous mistakes, yes, the UN is a money-guzzling organisation which is often lead by political motives - but also yes, people in the field are most often driven, dedicated people...

Ok, got it of my chest You can all shoot now... oh, and in case you were wondering, I work and live in Chad - so please all of you feel free to come by and stay for a couple of days, have a few cold s, take the rest before continuing, and continue this discussion while enjoying the luxury humanitarian expat life I am leading...

cheers/jef

you seem to feel superior, are you from Antwerp?


Should we give you a medal?

On the other hand, if the logistical nightmare is so terrible, and everything so difficult and expensive because of the country,
I would expect a well-run multinational organisation to choose a local person as "country director", not a NGO hopper with no local knowledge whatsoever, who is likely to be fooled at each and every turn.
I don't believe that no competent person could be found in Chad willing to work for your dismal salary and terrible benefits.
Which points to the reality that aid work is in fact a "job program" for (sometimes idealistic) first world people, with no need for results nor accountability. Same thing for voluntary jobs.

Which brings us back at the original question.

You can get a degree in it nowadays; disaster management and all that.......

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Dave

Seems I stepped on some sensitive toes here... I would not consider comparing my experience with others as arrogant, and certainly not very much to do with where I come from... all I wanted to do here was to give a point of view from the inside...

And did I even remotely indicate that I ask for some recognition for what I am doing? I think one of my points was indeed that it is just a job, with some specific conditions maybe, but nothing more than that... As for expats versus national staff, one of the targets that most international NGO's have, is to train local staff so that the number of expats can be reduced over time. Of course, if you say that the country is filled anyway with competent people, there would be no need anyway for extra education, or any form of development, would there? Finding a person with the right skill set and experience in the country that ranks 174 out of 177 in the human development index charts, well, it might be challenging...

I presume that you know about the results I need to provide, or the accountability that we have here since you are so confident in making an easy statement... would you not consider providing 300,000 liter of drinking water a day in the middle of the desert, every single day, for 27,000 refugees, as a result? Would you not consider assuring primary health care for the same population, in an environment where there is basically nothing, and therefore reduce the mortality rate, not as holding quite some accountability? Or, in the same environment, setting up an educational system for 14,000 kids reflecting the educational system where they come from (in this case Darfur, which they fled for their own government or for other rebel groups), so that, when they return to their home country, they at least will have some basis to help build up their country again, and not having lost 3, 5 or 10 years without any form of education?

Is what we are doing the right thing? I honestly don't know - the same way that I also don't know if it's a good thing if doctors want to keep at all cost a patient alive, even if all hope seems to be lost... but if you feel arrogant enough to know that all international NGO's should pull out because it is only 'a job program' and therefore leave those people to solve their own problems, and come up with a decent alternative to take care of 180,000 refugees fleeing the Darfur region, plus about the same amount of people internally in Chad fleeing for inter-tribal and ethnical violence, please feel free... you might find it to be a bit harder though than just making some easy, cheap statements...

And by the way, I am still with my first NGO - but I guess you would still consider that to be an NGO hopper...

But, as usual, safe travels, and still always welcome for a cold in Chad...

Look...if there is a perfect agency or a solution to alleviating poverty...somebody please proffer this one up...

AND question all you want, but getting nominated for the Nobel Peace prize over 7 times is not questionable...

__________________
edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

NO this is not a good topic to dicus over a ! A dicussion over LR versus LC or something of the kind is a worthy discussion over a . This is NGO farce is something where actual harm is done! But I guess this issue will never come to a resolution because there is to much money involved!

Don't you NGO people see that doing your kid's homework won't help him!!

cheers,
Noel