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11 May 2007
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DR-Z400 with kickstart kit -- does it run without battery?
I recently aquired DR-Z400S as my first bike. I'm planning to add kickstart kit as backup, so I can start my bike in case of starter/battery failure or flat battery.
However, I recently read somewhere that in certain cases, small electrical power is still required to start a bike even with kick start as some bikes can't be started without battery at all. Does it only apply to fuel-injected bikes or what exactly causes this power requirement or I misunderstood something? Can DR-Z400 with kick-start kit installed be started when battery is completely flat or removed?
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13 May 2007
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I have already done this conversion and never tried to kick the bike without a battery, but if my understanding of these matters is correct (based upon previous bikes) there is a slightly different electrical setup required to allow the windings to self generate a current upon a kick that is required from a battery. I'm sure someone on here will correct me/fill in the details if I'm wrong.
Regardless, I'm almost certain that no bike will start if you just remove the battery. At the very least I think you have to replace the battery with a capacitor of some size.....
Sorry I couldnt be of more definate help......
Dave
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13 May 2007
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It's a very different bike of course but I guess electrics are electrics...
My kick start Enfield came with a standard regulator/rectifier unit in the charging system, like most bikes I understand. However on the Enfield these units are unreliable so I replaced it with a 'power box' unit ( a boyer bransden one).
This unit is not only more reliable but also allows the bike to be run entirely without a battery.
My guess is that if the DRZ is fitted with a 'powerbox' style regulator it too would run without a battery. If not, then it won't. I suspect you could retro fit a power box if this was a concern to you.
Hope this helps!
Matt 
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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
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13 May 2007
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Slightly off your topic, but why not bump start a flat battery bike or borrow jump leads from some friendly 4 wheel owner?
I lost the use of my starter motor (solenoid from memory) on a tour of France some years ago on the first day of the trip, and I spent the next 4 weeks bump starting the bike each and every day and leaving the engine running at "splash and dash" fuel stops. It was only fixed after I got it back home.
Anyway, I would be interested in the correct answer to this thread question; currently running a kickstart Yam TT600R which does not have a battery but it does have a Reg/rec - While staring at the electrics under the seat I have assumed that this is for the 12V lighting circuits only!!?
Until I kick it over, there is no power for anything, of course.
Dave
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13 May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
why not bump start a flat battery bike or borrow jump leads from some friendly 4 wheel owner?
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How about bump starting in sandy desert? As for 4x4 owners, I like to go to places where there are no other people... 
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13 May 2007
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Then you will need a tow rope to link up with the guy(s) you are riding with!! ;-)
I hope you get a useful answer to your original question; it is of interest to me as well to understand this better!! :confused1:
Dave
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14 May 2007
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The answer is NO, it will NOT run without some power in the battrie. The reason is it has a computer module that needs power. The module is what sets timing, rev limiter and some other things I am not sure about. Anyway I killed my battrie once and it had a little power, but not enough to turn it over. Since I lived on a hill, just bump start it right! Well it didn't work, so int the shop I went. The guy explained to me why it didn't bump start. That was in 2003 when my bike was new so I don't remember all the technical details.
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14 May 2007
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Computers!!
So, it is the dreaded computer chip!
I was hoping it would be something mechanical/electrical such as a fuel pump!
Desktop computers have backup (rechargeable lithium ion or similar?) batteries to the mains power, so how is it that the small computing power in a motorbike does not have this facility as well?
This topic is a bit wider than the Suzuki/DRZ400 thread 
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14 May 2007
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Back on topic. Yes you need a little power for ANY bike to stary even with a kick start. The ones without a battrie use a magneto, but as said above the DR-Z needs powe for the ECU so the magneto is not an option for it.
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15 May 2007
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If you plan on running the bike without using the electric start why don't you just get a smaller battery? A small sealed battery will do the job, weight and cost little and last forever. Buy good quality (like Yuasa) and fit it properly to avoid broken plates. Why worry about complicated and expensive modifications?
If you have a kickstart and a battery ignition system your bike will usually still start with a battery too weak to run the electric start and get you to a place where you can replace the battery.
On my DR650SE's the batteries last 3 years plus, I never had a battery failing prematurely running up to six bikes at a time over the last seven years and that's with using the electric start. Same for starter motors and solenoids BTW.
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15 May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecap
If you plan on running the bike without using the electric start why don't you just get a smaller battery? A small sealed battery will do the job, weight and cost little and last forever. Buy good quality (like Yuasa) and fit it properly to avoid broken plates. Why worry about complicated and expensive modifications?
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The original battery is small enough Yuasa and I see no point to replace it with even smaller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lecap
If you have a kickstart and a battery ignition system your bike will usually still start with a battery too weak to run the electric start and get you to a place where you can replace the battery.
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Yes, that is fair enough, but not the same as "no battery".
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17 Jun 2007
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Found this thread at ThumperTalk:
Convert S Model to a K?
Seems removing battery and using only kickstart is possible.
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18 Jun 2007
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Bike electrical systems
All,
While looking for information for my own bike I came across this website:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-stuff-27640
It may be of some use to others (certainly has been for me!)
Dave
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4 Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlomax
I have already done this conversion and never tried to kick the bike without a battery, but if my understanding of these matters is correct (based upon previous bikes) there is a slightly different electrical setup required to allow the windings to self generate a current upon a kick that is required from a battery. I'm sure someone on here will correct me/fill in the details if I'm wrong.
Regardless, I'm almost certain that no bike will start if you just remove the battery. At the very least I think you have to replace the battery with a capacitor of some size.....
Sorry I couldnt be of more definate help......
Dave
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Just a quick back up to my last post. Was talking to a mate about this and he has replaced his battery with a 5000uF Capacitor. As the engine kicks over power is generated in the Alternator and the charging circuit sends it to the 'battery'...The Capacitor stores a little and releases it slowly for a fraction of a second allowing the dreaded chip to set itself before starting the bike....Jobs a good 'un!
Dave
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6 Sep 2008
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DR-Z400 with kickstart kit -- does it run without battery?
I took the battery out of my 2003 DRZ400S about 6 months ago and plan to replace it eventually. In the meantime however it kickstarts just fine without battery or capacitor, battery cables are lose. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
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