To bee honest I don’t see the point in the TuBliss-system when it comes to traveling (for me).

If the sidewall goes, you dent a rim or you get a flat you can’t plug you still need a tube. You also need a pump that can handle 110 PSI, mine don’t.

For me it looks like a system with the weakness of tubeless rims with more parts that can fail.

Some good points AliBaba. In case of a big cut on the tire or dented rim I would be smart to carry at least one spare tube with you, I agree on that.

However I think the chance of denting a rim goes down a lot, since the sidewalls are always held in place.

Most road bicycle pumps would have no problems with 110psi, I have had my Topeak Morph that high for example (I believe it's rated for 160psi). Weighs less than 200 grams, too.

Since you don't have to make any permanent changes, I don't see a disadvantage to starting a trip with the Tubliss system - provided it holds up to high speed street use. The chances of having a normal flat go down or you can repair it easily with a tubeless kit. Should you have more serious damage to tire or rim you can still swap in the spare tube.

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Currently on a RTW ride:
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Bit late to the discussion, but for what it is worth I ran an assortment of tubeless tyres last year during a 20,000km ride around Australia on my 1200 GSA.
I tried the TKC 80's and thought that they were pretty good on and off road, though in the Northern Territory where the speed limit is 130km/h they were a little wobbly on the black top... actually prefer the Metzeler Karoo 2 - about the same as the TKC's on the dirt but slightly better on the road, probably on account of the tread layout. Depending on the terrain I would get around 6000km out of a rear and about twice that from the front. Weight of the bike and gear probably wore it down faster than a lighter bike.
In terms of how fast a puncture hits, I had a couple out in the Kimberley where the temperatures were in the high 30's (Celsius that is... no idea what that is in old talk). I have a built in tyre pressure gauge so I could actually see how long it took for the tyres to drop. I measured that the rear went from 2.7bar to 2.5bar over a period of about 100km in 36 degree heat at an average speed of around 120km/h. When I did stop to take a look at it, there was a nail in there so no doubt that slowed down the speed at which the air was lost, but I know know my last nail-induced puncture on a tubed tyre it took about 5kms until it was totally flat.

fyi, more discussion and insights on this topic here.

I was about to fit Tubliss to my current project bike (spoked 19s) but realise (or have been reminded) that the safety rim lip is more important for 'kerb hits' than anything else.

Also, just found this link and think the way this guy did it - individually sealing each nipple - is better than the method I used in 2008. He's run over 100,000 on spoked road bikes like this.

Ch

Since this thread was started the practise of either getting regular spoked rims sealed in various ways or bikes coming with stock TL spoke rims has caught on.
I've been keeping up with it all over that time.
The latest is here

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Hi, I just signed up specifically because of this thread. I did a Loctite 290 and 3M 4412 sealing job on my 2010 Bonneville T100 last year and it certainly loses air much slower than it used to do with tubes in. The Loctite is remarkable in its wicking qualities: it seems to fly up the thread like a ferret up a drainpipe. The 3M tape is the stickiest thing I've encountered in my 66 years: it would probably adhere to melting ice <irony>, so the Loctite probably isn't necessary.In addition to the advriders thread, there's also a thread on Triumphrat forums.
I managed to break the beads easily with a doorway and a couple of bits of 4" x 2", and I inflated one after conversion easily with a petrol station air line. BTW I found the tyre professionals had managed to fold over and big-time crease my inner tube inside one of the tyres. Not good. Thank you for not going Bang!
The presence or lack of a "safety" bead on the rims doesn't worry me overly: I plan to convert the Himalayan after next week's Morocco trip. It seems to make sense that a sudden deflation on a tubeless conversion should be no worse than a sudden deflation on a tubed tyre: in any case I'm old and have to die sometime<irony>. I'd be prepared to listen to reasoned arguments against this statement.
Happy Trails!

Thanks for your update. I'll probably be trying similar on a lipped Giant alloy 21 rim from CWS.

I was never keen on it - now I know why. My Tubliss failed in very much the middle of nowhere - on top of my Michelin TPMS packing up a few days earlier. Don't know why with either - just the curse of the desert I suppose.
250 clicks back to the coast at 30mph. Amazed it stayed on. Could have gone faster but wanted to keep it cool.
About to find out if my Him tyre has them (knackered Tubliss core may have helped) but that is why the safety lip is a good idea.
Had a similar need to ride a while on a TL flat in Nov on a 700GS.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Hi

Does anyone know of a company that can convert my X-Challenge wheels to tubeless? (21" and 18")
I have seen the DIY solutions but I would rather have it done by a professional. Thanks.

In France try the BARTubeless dealer (who sends wheels to Italy).
https://www.bartfactory.com/bartubel...rance/?lang=en

Or go to the factory if you are near Milan.

In the UK, CWC do both BARTubeless (sent to Italy)
and their own Airtight vulcanised band.
It's not easily found on their website; start here:
https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/serv...nversions.html

I've tried/have both. Good idea to add Slime or similar; easier to spot leaks.
TPMS is also a good idea.

More info and pics here:
https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2...l-rim-sealing/

I believe XCh rims have the required safety lip.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

IMHO, and experience, a sudden deflation on a tube tire is a terrifying thing on average, and can have you sliding or worse bouncing down the highway in an instant at great speed. Now, if that's "acceptable" to you, have at it - but personally the GREATLY increased safety that a "safety bead" gives you on a tubeless rim is a HUGE advantage. That bead will almost certainly hold the tire ON and in place, and all that happens is you lose air, the tire gets squishy, and you pull off to the side. You can even ride it a long distance if need be, with appropriate care.

When a tube tire deflates suddenly from a big hole or tear in the tube, it is almost certain to break away from the bead and flop side to side - uncontrollably. DAMHIK...

I am adamantly against creating a tubeless system without that safety bead. Why? Simple - that bead is there to keep the tire on the rim. Without the bead, and with a tube, under great force, the tire can peel away from the rim a tiny bit, but fortunately the tube pushes it back. Without the tube, it will deflate instantly. That's WHY the safety bead was invented in the first place.

I vote for safety beads on ALL wheels.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I agree. I had tubed Yamaha trail bikes way back in the 1980s with the lip, on the rear at least.

Neither BART or CWC will do the job without the lip, afaik.

Only problem is it can make roadside tyre removal and remounting hard work.
All the more reason to convert to plug-&-go TL.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Not a stupid question.
Many times I have looked for such rims used because the price new is several hundred pounds.
The list of bikes with those rims is linked from here:
https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2...spoked-wheels/

They exist in China but you must buy 200.

And they must be the same number of spokes as the stock hub.
Normal is 36 but BMW use 40 on the big GSs.

Cast wheels (always TL) are another option, but only in 19 inch or less.
I managed to fit a cast 19er from an XVS950 on to my XSR 700.

Now that Airtight and BART can seal the original rim (if lipped) with no wheel building required, it makes it easier and cheaper.
However lipped in 21 inch is quite rare (I think XCh has it).
I found some Excel 21s in Italy and bought a pair for a rainy day.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

I was seriously considering changing tubes to tubeless on my ‘16 Africa Twin. Watched a few vids and all looked good. Rang Lightfoot Engineering in Melbourne- tyre and rim guru (my description, not his) and asked his opinion as to whether it was a good idea. Answer - No! He said that he doesn’t recommend it and has seen various issues arising from the conversion. I think he now refuses to do them. He spoke also about the BMW rims with offset spokes and said some of those rims ( depending on the bike’s year model) were not without problems either. He suggested that putting in bicycle tube sealant in through the valve of a tube ( if using them) adds a slight safety inclusion, hopefully creating a slower leak rather than a fast leak as can happen when tubes blow. Be careful of thickish tubes- added heat generation. It’s tubes for me. If I had a BM with the modern rim, I’d probably use tubeless though.

Your tyre guru's reaction is not uncommon from someone in the tyre and wheel trade but not offering this service.
Or are you saying he did it, but stopped? And if yes, what technique did he use?
I can see if it was unreliable, he'd have to stop letting customers down if he could not find a better way.
DIY, and you are your own boss.

And yes, squeezing sealant into the tube is commonly done.
Bottles of Slime or similar come with a Schrader nozzle to make it easy. I do it to all my tubed bikes; for a few quid it's a no-brainer. But I now hear from others and have found myself Slime etc can soften and delaminate the sealant. Won't use it now. If it's leaking a bit it has not been done right. Try again until it does. Slime/etc is a short cut that may bite back on some sealants.



BMW have had problem wheels (cracking alloys) since I first started biking, but what are the actual problems with BMW outboard spoke rims?
Is it to do with the spokes or the TL seal?
I certainly feel that outboard spokes (750GS below) are in a more vulnerable position in rocky terrain, and heavy bikes ridden hard or carelessly at too low psi or on soft-wall tyres will damage rims for sure.
A hard-riding KTM big-twin mate ruined his stock wheels.

Matters are over-complicated by attempting to seal a 'sieve' when a perfectly good bowl is sat right alongside!
Cast wheel does the job perfectly.
People will now jump in, parroting the 'spokes are better off-road' myth. On a 110-kilo KDX200, absolutely.
But on a GS12 or AT or Pan Am at way more than double the weight...?
It's an unfortunate clash of looks/marketing (spokes = rufty-tufty off-road) vs safety (TL).
The whole 'adventure motorcycling' phenomenon in a nutshell ;-)
You can add cost too: OE TL spoked rims using flanges or outboard cost way more.

Talking of ATwins, I DIY sealed the rear of my 2018 for a long desert trip with no complaints. Sat for a year and a half, it still held air.
https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2...-for-tubeless/


A 21-er upfront has historically been trickier to DIY; I would sooner get it professionally sealed with Airtight (see link below)

As you will know, the 1100 AT now has TLs all-round because inner tubes are an anachronism.
When did regular cars last use inner tubes?

The great thing is, converting to TL is a choice.
For a regular riding around where you can call in a recovery if you can't fix your own flat, why bother.
The crux is to do it well (link above) or get it done professionally.
I bet someone in Ozzie is offering such services.

For a travel bike operating alone out in the sticks, autonomy is important.
The ability to fix a roadside flat and be rolling again in 10 minutes adds peace of mind in the face of the many other challenges on the road.

Pages and pages on this interesting topic here.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

My experience with the Outex kit, installed on stock rims from a 2008 Suzuki DR650.
Installed late 2021 @ 38k miles on the odometer, with minor prep of the inner wheel/rim surface: smoothing the rough weld seam and cleaning with mineral spirits. Followed the instructions from the Outex kit. I run pressures in the mid-30s and don't adjust for offroad. Riding environment is southern Arizona USA, high-speed (for what it is) freeway burns and offroad day trips on fairly tame 2-track. Zero issues, zero leaks or punctures. Tires are Dunlop Trailmax Missions in stock sizes.
Mid-April of 2024, I departed for a RTW ride from Arizona, bike shod with new Trailmax Missions, pressures at 35 front/39 rear cold. About 90 lbs of travel gear between all of the bags and boxes. 200lbs of rider including gear. 6.5 gallon fuel tank. I have a TPMS installed (Sykik Rider from Amazon) with fresh batteries installed in the sensors. I made it to Islamabad in early July, having lost about 5 lbs of pressure in both tires...I didn't need to add air at all. Riding conditions were pretty much a bit of everything: Primarily tarmac at moderate speeds, with some gnarly offroad in the Balkans and pavement of varying qualities as I went through eastern Turkey, Kurdistan and Pakistan (especially the southern part).
At about 11k miles on these tires, there is still about 15% of usable tread left (eyeball estimate...we all know the last bit goes away faster than you'd like/expect.)
Summary: The Outex kit has treated my very well, particularly coupled with the Trailmax Mission tires.