Well spotted Xander, a small, chunky pushbike-sized tube to seal the tyre bead to bead, not the rim so you keep spoke tension ability.

I think I've seen similar on giant-tyred 4WDs run in Iceland for extremely low pressure (more for rim retention as they are tubeless already of course). I've also used pushbike tubes in a slightly similar way to seal and so mount tubeless 4WD tyres.

Looks like Tubliss is aimed at dirt bikes: light and relatively slow but a lot of impact flex going on - plus a van nearby. Not the same as a GS12 laden with all the Touratech fruit. Avoids the whole road-use legal issue and who can blame them, but AFAIK speed ratings are tyre related(flex + friction = heat = high wear/failure).
No friction with the red liner (or barely any compared to a full contact tube) and even less heat with Slime-like sealant, just regular tyre flex. Run a good tyre with the appropriate rating for your bike + right pressure for the load/terrain as you would normally.

I'll give them a try - all you got to do is take tubes with until you have faith in it.

Ch

Added later:

Just found this on Tubliss tire product - ADVrider

Tubliss officially is not recommending them for highway use. One reason is that they have not been tested to any standards for highway use and another reason is that if the system were to fail while riding at highway speed the tire goes flat immediately. No slow leaks, just boom and it's gone. Now having said all of that they have some customers that are using the system on the street and have had no problems as of yet. Tubliss and Brap Offroad both are selling this system for off road use only at this time. What it gets used for is out of our control.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to email me back or call me at 717-285-7873.
Thanks and have a great day.

Marty Graver
BRAP! Offroad

So, as you guys probably already know, these are for off-road, slower speed only.

I think when he says failing he means the red core bit - not a regular tyre tread puncture where a flat would occur in the normal tubeless fashion (ie: slower than tubes). If anything the red rim lock would make the deflation safer as it would hold the tyre on the rim. So as I understand it, as long as the red tube doesn't fail (it's v thick and far from the tyre tread most of the time) it's business as usual.

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Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

Thanks.. I been thinking about them for a few weeks .. and feel really stupid for not searching ADV rider.. :confused1: (being a member and all)

Chris I think you may be right.. I use TKC80 on my AT (which are labelled as tubeless anyway so a normal "nail in the tread" will go down at a normal rate). So with the rim locks and Red tube it should hold, better then I am running now (no rim locks, I know I know.. just have not got a round to fitting them yet) ... I was worried about heat (from weight/speed) . but your point is 100% correct.. I wonder what the failure rate of the red-tube is? I also wonder can you "slime" them (yes you will be upping the Heat but could lower the risk of catastrophic failure). Chris if you are going to give them a try I will be watching with great interest..please keep us up todate...

Edit: B**ger i just realised the dont do a 17" hmmmmm As i am changing my rims later this year anyway.. maybe i could go up to 18"

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2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com

I also wonder can you "slime" them (yes you will be upping the Heat but could lower the risk of catastrophic failure).

Actually I believe Slime and the like reduce heat or at least dissipate it better.
Slimed my car the other month after years of thinking about it. Not infallible for punctures but then you just ram a gluey plug in and pump up which is the whole point of tubeless for me. FWIW gluey plugs also can fail I found: then you take the tyre off and go to the menders for an inner patch. And it seems you can ride flat OK on tubliss but the tyre will get very very hot even at slow speeds. Tried this on an XT in Mali once with not choice and it wrecked the tyre in 20km.

..please keep us up todate...

Will do. Contacted the UK distribs and have a trip coming up on an 18/21 bike running new TKCs. Shame they're not in 17 - maybe it's a too obvious road bike size? Anyway it's same/cheaper and a better solution than those tyre balls and more flexible than mousses, IMO

Ch

btw, will be trying one these too: probably instant landfill but worth a tenner to try with a bikepump as back up.
Airman Compact Air Compressor - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

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Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

I don't think I like the DIY approach. Maybe it's the engineer in me but sealing air really needs the right surfaces and the right materials used in the right way. I've known enough things leak when the seals were designed to known criterea to go try the "slap enough paint on" approach. BMW must have looked at semi-liquid sealants, O-rings, diaphragms and a host of other ways to seal the tyre and eventually went for the idea of separating the mechanical and pneumatic. This is good engineering as it avoids dynamic seals (your spokes and rim flex so the seal must too) which will always leak even if you go for something like a diaphragm never mind semi-liquid stuff. For a good dynamic seal you need a diaphragm to make the seal effectively static or an O-ring type seal with the right compression throughout the movement range. Liquids have no compression and to me would leak as soon as the spokes flexed. How much is the big question.

Tyre repair gloop (basically water with suspended silicone blobs) is the equivalent of emptying the teapot down the sink. You'll think you blocked the plug hole, but come back in a few hours.....In a tyre repair the glue holds the plug (mechanical) while the rubber in compression does the sealing, hence it's a good seal.

I won't be doing this, but if you really do want to be the first (and lacking a tyre engineer to tell me otherwise), the pneumatic guy suggests keeping the rim tape. A least this will slow the flow rate if the silicone does open a leak path and will keep the seal on the spokes in compression and as static as possible.

Andy

BMW must have looked at semi-liquid sealants, O-rings, diaphragms and a host of other ways to seal

I must say fixing the spokes outside the rim seems the obvious and easy way round it - or cast wheels of course (which I read somewhere are lighter on the t/l GS650 compared to the tubed 800 - could be wrong).

Lashings of B&Q silicon sealant under the rim tape sounds a good and reverseable bodge (as the best bodges are) but I wonder if there is some alloy corrosion (the vinegary smell) or outdoor temps ageing element in the silicon? Maybe some gasket compound would be better but whatever, it would be prone to lift off with centrifugal forces at speed unless the rim tape was a giant hose clip.

Anyway, Tubliss seemed to have engineered a neat solution. With that the centrifugal (which I didn't consider before) is broadly with you.

Thanks for the SP on the Airman pump - landfill it is then. Still Screwfix sounds like a good place for a wander and it's right next to Ikea for the Mrs - everyone wins!

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

Threewheelbonnie,
I'm with you on this, I would rather put my trust in the tyre companies than someone who has tried a bodge and got away with it. OK if you are in the middle of nowhere and you have to find a fix somehow and then get the correct repair done as soon as you can.
I know there are those that will say that they have been using this or that for ages on the road but you don't get any test data to say what the limits are and what kind of bikes that are used.
Cheers
Ian

Slime and Ride-On are designed to be used prophylactically. Have you had bad luck with Slime? I've used it for maybe ten years now. And though it does not always work 100% of the time, it has worked many times. In Baja, cactus can be a problem. Slime works pretty good at sealing these small punctures. Also, things like small staples and finishing nails too.

Slime, if nothing else, can slow down rapid air loss you can get with a tube. Not good when fully loaded on highway at 80 mph.

Andy,
Not to denigrate tire engineers, but this really is just not that complex or hard to manage. Experience messing with it over the years can be a good way to know what works and what won't.


Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Sealing rims is a great way to avoid having to pull wheels off and patch tubes. This has been done successfully for a long time. I first heard of it in about 1998 on the Yahoo Triumph Tiger list. A really S. African guy, really good mechanic and tour operator, sealed up the rims on his rental Tigers. Worked out well from what I understand.

Woody's Wheel Works can do it too (for US guys) and I'm sure any good wheel builder can seal up rims properly. I did mine myself. I have not finished the project yet. But will in near future, and will report back!

I have sealed the rims on my DR650 ... can't find the "after" pics..... I will be changing tires soon and will post the pics of what they look like with sealer on there. I did this mostly to avoid rapid air loss.

Most rims will hold the bead solid and do not need a tube to keep them
in place. Could a really hard hit unseat the bead? Regards my DR650, I don't know for sure.

The product I used is called:
3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200

Here is what 3M claim:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Watertight Bonding/Sealing of Fiberglass and Wood.

Ideal for Through-Hull and Deck Fittings and Deck to
Hull Joints.

Flexible

Cures in 7 days

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I totally trust 3M, they make great products. This stuff is not some
ordinary Silicone sealer. It's tough as Hell and adheres to the Aluminum very very well. I tried to peel it off the spoke nipples after it
had cured for a few days (meant to cure a week) I couldn't get it off! Still flexible but sticks in place! This stuff is PERMANENT!

Regards spokes:
Once the sealer is on and fully cured, the spokes should not move, therefore may not ever need adjustment again. (theoretically ) Time will tell. My bike has only done 4000 miles since I sealed them and like I said, I have not finished the job yet and am still running a tube. Spokes all good so far.

I'm still running a tube. I did this initially to slow rapid air loss. At some point I will go tubeless and install a tubeless style valve stem and see how it holds. Other projects in the way at the moment. I have a spare set of wheels to "experiment" on.

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Good on you M-Dog. Interesting to hear someone has tried it, can actually recommend a product and that the idea has been around for ages.

Whip that tube out and take it round the block pronto, what are you waiting for?!

the spokes should not move, therefore may not ever need adjustment again. (theoretically...

I think it could be theoretically because it assumes that spoke loosening only happens at the now sealed up nipple. I have a feeling a spoke can simply 'stretch' along its entire length. Dont they normally break at the hub end? i cant remember.

Not sure Woody's is still doing it is he? See: WoodysWheelWorks.com - under KTM 950 Wheels
He mentions the complexities of sealant and centrifugal force which occurred to me earlier.

I would rather put my trust in the tyre companies than someone who has tried a bodge and got away with it.

Ian, we're not talking about messing around with trusted tyres but sealing wheel rims. The tyre is not affected except that it now runs cooler and deflates more slowly on puncture. In the old days what has come to be known as 'adventure motorcycling' was all about what I call 'bodging' - aka experimentation.
Of course a proper tubeless rim would be best to save all this messing about with 3M gloop, but on the sort of bikes I like they are rare at present. I was sceptical about tubeless on bikes for overlanding but am now converted enough to give it a try. As we all know punctures are the most common breakdown we'll experience on the road. Decent proven TL tyres like TKC80s exist so IMO it's time to make spoked rims catch up with 3M or Tubliss.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

I've had good and bad experiences with both slime and ultraseal. The issue seems to be a mixture of cure time and hole size. If the hole is small a small number of rubber bits block it, it cures quickly and you have a near permanant fix. If you get a big hole you get the "tea leaves in the sink" effect and get to do a proper fix after your next meal break. If you get a hole in a surface that moves or isn't flat (seam of a tube in my case) it simply doesn't work and the stuff is just messy. All in all though I can see practical advantages to this. I don't carry it as the Bonneville has very easy to change tubes, but for example with my dad's Guzzi running tubeless tyres on the worlds tightest tube type rims, Ultraseal would for sure be my first choice if he ever went more than a hundred miles from home.

Like I said, it's the engineer in me that likes to see proper testing, an affliction that no doubt does prevent progress that inventive people will naturally bypass. I've had one explosive blow out in my previous test driving career (I used to work for WABCO the brakes people), fortunately on an axle with twin tyres but the noise was enough. I can also change my tubes in next to no time, so no encouragment there I guess

The comments from the guys doing this in the US are interesting. The bigger the wheel the harder it is to seal, or is it the front position? The spoke flexing is different either way IMHO. A rear is going to flex it's spokes based mostly on engine torque applied? The ends of the spokes to me will "roll" in the rim, something the front also see's under braking? The front is subject more to impact type hits to the rim trying to push the spoke into the rim, making a gap a little like a poppet valve as the rim flexes? The longer the spoke the bigger the gap created when it moves, so the harder it is to keep your chosen seal in compression?

As a test routine, I'd want to seal the biggest rear I could and ride it off road so it see's impacts. Then I'd want to try the same size as a front, so 19-inch on a classic/Enfield? You'd at least be learning if it's the wheel loading or spoke length that limits your seal. Hopefully you find out if you've got a rolling or opening issue and can then add a suitable o-ring or flat seal to support the semi-liquid?

My other fear is changing the resonant frequency of the wheel by some stiffening of the rim to spoke joint. What's the chance of breaking a spoke now and after the seal starts acting as a damper? If a spoke breaks what are the chances of this causing a rapid tyre failure? Like I say, it's just the engineer in me that likes to see FMEA's and the like on safety critical items.

Good luck to the innovators out there

Andy

All good points Andy that make theoretical sense to me. You do wonder why matey has recoded front 21s failing - could be less tyre mass to absorb impacts (compared to a chunkier rear) and longer spokes like you say. But the only spokes I've ever broken were on the rear which takes much more load in an overland rather than racing scenario.

I do wonder about the loss of spoke-tensioning/repairing ability with the 3M method. May be fine on some fat highway cruiser but we're all about crap roads in poor countries and off roading with big loads. For years I always fitted my bikes with HD spokes on decent rims (if necessary) but on the last trip a custom HD re-spoke made things worse on mine (the other bikes - same models & load - had no breakages).

This is why for real world overlanding I think I might prefer the Tubliss liners - they are easy to reverse.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 (2025) • Trans Morocco Trail

Dont waste your ££ ..I had two they replace the first one that never worked and the second over heated doing a fit ball (10psi)...

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2000 Africa Twin
http://two-up-ona-twin.blogspot.com

I bought something very similar from Woolies this time last year, stripped the casing off to reduce the size and used it loads of times (wife's car has "leaky" tyre) until it vanished a couple of months back. Noticed the other day that Woolies has them again for £6.99. If I buy one the original will turn up the next day!