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7 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docsherlock
The question is, if the generator is dead, and therefore the battery too, if the battery is left in place to act as a capacitor, would the output from the solar charger run the bike without the lights on i.e. would it power the fuel pump, injectors, ecu and ignition system?
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It still depends on the bike. How much curent it needs. There are many roadracingbikes that run a total loss system, i.e. without a generator, just a charged battery, but then they don't run all day.
In the tropics, you might be able to get away with solarcharging 10-11 hours and then maybe run the bike for 4-5 hours.
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Last edited by pbekkerh; 7 Jan 2011 at 17:46.
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7 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregorius
Crank, the LC4 has the kickstarter on the wrong side of the bike for some unfathomable reason and is a complete b!tch to start on the lever ...
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How is that ???
wrong side ??
I'm confused...
that's very new to me... a LC4 is one of the most easiest 600+ bike to start with a kickstarter... "well if done right" even without the decompression leaver or snapped cable.. done that for over a year before I had the pennies to get the free-wheel-gear repaired... even did a trip to Scandinavia that way with a non working free-wheel-gear.
absolute no problem starting the bike with the left foot sitting fully loaded on the bike, just find the dead centre, push the leaver ones more down half way after that, let it come up again and give it a good kick and off you go.
Even now with the e-starter fully working again, do I use the kickstarter if the bike is cold, in the morning to prevent the e-starter from getting used more than necessary or worn down... only use the e-starter if the bike is warm, using the e-starter when the bike is cold puts a lot of strain to the starter and battery.
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7 Jan 2011
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The solar panel is a cute idea .. lol...
The ignition and other bits will prolly consume 30-50 watts, so you're looking at about 4 amps - and you'd need a bank of solar cells 54cm x 64cm according to
Maplin anyway ...
Anyway - back to the original question, I'd aimed it at simply the battery failing with the generator still functioning and producing stable voltage.
This brings another question, if the VRR had died, then the generator will be making unregulated output (cooking the battery in the process) but will that output run the bike?? Will the dead battery be sufficient to hold down the voltage ..?
As I said, I'm just harking back to the days of my old - batteryless - Puch Maxi that ran quite happily and gave lighting... Being able to adapt a more modern electrical system to run without a battery would be quite handy if you needed it to ..
Or do you just pack up and go home... 
G
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7 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky
How is that ???
wrong side ??
I'm confused...
that's very new to me... a LC4 is one of the most easiest 600+ bike to start with a kickstarter... "well if done right" even without the decompression leaver or snapped cable.. done that for over a year before I had the pennies to get the free-wheel-gear repaired... even did a trip to Scandinavia that way with a non working free-wheel-gear.
absolute no problem starting the bike with the left foot sitting fully loaded on the bike, just find the dead centre, push the leaver ones more down halve way after that, let it come up again and give it a good kick and off you go.
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Hi Spooks ...
Most kickstarters are on the RHS but as I said the LC4 is on the left - likewise they're back to front with the chain drive too, but they resolved all that with the EXC didn't they ...
Mine's a 400, and I junked the decomp system because it wasn't needed, and the arm on top of the valve inspection cover got in the way of my twin fan conversion - but it was always hard to start, and just plain awkward - to say nothing of wrecking the side-stand spring if the stand was deployed at the time ...
I changed the carb on mine from the sh!tty dellorto to an FCR 37 - it made a huge difference to how the bike ran - still hard to start though lol..
G
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7 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregorius
Mine's a 400, and I junked the decomp system because it wasn't needed, and the arm on top of the valve inspection cover got in the way of my twin fan conversion - but it was always hard to start, and just plain awkward - to say nothing of wrecking the side-stand spring if the stand was deployed at the time ...
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well sounds like you got a ex-military LC4 than.... 
now that you removed the decomp valve arm is not needed, a pity you junked it.. I fitted the rallye fan KTM part-no: 58535041044 on to the RH radiator as a twin fan conversion, without any interference of the decomp arm, only had to turn the condensator at a 45 degree angle.. that's it.
about the side stand... do you need that for starting the bike ?
OK I have long legs, so I'm sitting on the bike and kick... while my mate with his XR650 has to use the side stand and standing on the pegs to get here going...
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Don't know about it being ex-military - it came in good old KTM Orange! Now it has a big tank and silver plastics though ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregorius
..................
This brings another question, if the VRR had died, then the generator will be making unregulated output (cooking the battery in the process) but will that output run the bike?? Will the dead battery be sufficient to hold down the voltage ..?
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If the dead battery is "cooked" i.e. without water, it will not conduct any current, it will be open circuit and if the voltage regulator is shorted, then you will "cook" all your electronics because of too high voltage, you might get by, in an emergency, by turning on all the lights blinkers etc, to keep the voltage down, but most voltage regulators have the rectifier incorporated, so if everything is burned, then you might have no voltage or only AC and modern electronics won't work on AC.
Some enduro bikes only produce 55W with a headlamp of 35W so ignition doesn't use much on these bikes. To find out how much current is needed, connect a multimeter in the A (current) position, in series with the battery lead and start the bike on the kickstart (the electrical starter will burn the fuse in the multimeter, or the meter itself) and see how much current is used and then calculate how big a backup battery you need.
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A little research shows power consumption for FI system is between 1.5-5 amps x 12 volts = 18-60 watts depending on bike, fuel pump etc.
So a solar power system can indeed supply enough juice to run the bike, lights off; the voltage is a little high at 17 volts but connecting via a battery that is not so pooched that it has infinite resistance should run the bike....
LOL indeed!
I might rig this up just to prove the point....
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So this would provide enough power to run the bike without the lights...
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8 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregorius
Theoretically --- if you're out in the middle of nowhere and you've managed to boil the battery dry  what can be done to extricate yourself from the do-do..??
Greg |
Seriously......Pee In It!! there will be enough acid in there to make it work with urine till you get to somewhere that you can rinse the cells amd refill.
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9 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn Tilley
Seriously......Pee In It!! there will be enough acid in there to make it work with urine till you get to somewhere that you can rinse the cells amd refill.
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I don't think my aim is good enough for that !  chug
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10 Jan 2011
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I think Grant has provided the only sensible answer so far to this problem.
I had a cell die in my battery in Russia 2 years back. Although I was able to eventually get a jump start (I have no kick start and the CVT on my bike will not allow you to roll start), the bike only ran for 100km further before it died completely. I was most fortunate in having a passing local stop and assist me. He had a bike in the back of his FWD and by some miracle the battery from that bike fitted mine.
The problem is that with modern FI bikes, the FI shuts down if it is receiving < 11 volts from the battery - even though the alternator is pumping out 14+ volts.
I pulled all fuses to non-critical electrical components (lights etc.) but the bike still wouldn't stay running until I put in a good battery with all cells functioning - even though the replacement battery was a lower AH rating it still worked fine (ran all elecrics including the electric start) for 5 days until I could replace it
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10 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farqhuar
I think Grant has provided the only sensible answer so far to this problem.
I had a cell die in my battery in Russia 2 years back. Although I was able to eventually get a jump start (I have no kick start and the CVT on my bike will not allow you to roll start), the bike only ran for 100km further before it died completely. I was most fortunate in having a passing local stop and assist me. He had a bike in the back of his FWD and by some miracle the battery from that bike fitted mine.
The problem is that with modern FI bikes, the FI shuts down if it is receiving < 11 volts from the battery - even though the alternator is pumping out 14+ volts.
I pulled all fuses to non-critical electrical components (lights etc.) but the bike still wouldn't stay running until I put in a good battery with all cells functioning - even though the replacement battery was a lower AH rating it still worked fine (ran all elecrics including the electric start) for 5 days until I could replace it
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So how does the FI/ECU 'know' that the voltage is coming from the battery or the alternator? 12V is 12V no matter where it comes from...
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10 Jan 2011
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Urine could work
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn Tilley
Seriously......Pee In It!! there will be enough acid in there to make it work with urine till you get to somewhere that you can rinse the cells amd refill.
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For the record. Urine is usually around PH 6.0 so it is acidic, this could actually work as urine is also distilled by the kidneys. Although urine has salts and is not demineralised so it is not ideal but still it's a good point. Has anyone used urine to recover a battery?
The trouble is if the batter is either sealed or gel then urine wouldn't be even a temporary solution.
Incidentally on this topic of Urine, it can be used to relieve pain from box jellyfish and bluebottle (also know as Portugese man-of-war) stings due to the high quantity of amonia.
references:
pH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jellyfish Sting Treatment - Will urine relieve the pain of a jellyfish sting
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11 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docsherlock
So how does the FI/ECU 'know' that the voltage is coming from the battery or the alternator? 12V is 12V no matter where it comes from...
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I honestly don't know the answer to that question, and I wish I did. If there any auto-electrical boffins on the site I'd be very pleased to hear from them.
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