Could it be because of the availability of:

• Moto Centre stands
• Slime type products
• Michelin Moto / Buzetti _ / Motion Pro T6 combo tyre levers
• Meet ups where people learn tricks to fix punctures and practice
• and other kit

But I confess that a BestRest plugger kit on tubeless rim does really make repairs so much quicker and easier.

An inner tube will also enable you to repair a cut tyre.
If you have some of those special spoked wheels which don't require a tube ( and you're not carrying means to repair) then you go and slice a tyre- you're stranded.
To alleviate your worries Tim, perhaps the answer is for you to practice more until you've built up confidence in your ability to fix flats and remove the worry?

I doubt Tim is short of practice

Bikers like to bang on about semi-pointless minor technical detail like the "Soul of a V-twin" but honestly boys, its mostly fashion. Tubed or tubeless, for the time difference over the life of a bike there is no real difference. Now the look of the bike in the show room; that sells as surely as not putting red shoes with a green handbag.

Why do Moto Guzzi offer both in the same range? 1. to gather the odd sale from techno nit-pickers and 2. to make sure both buyers of red shoes and green handbags come through the showroom door.

I'd choose tubeless in a free vote but no way would I spend anything to convert from tubed to sealed-with-shower-and-bath-gloop. Nor will I be buying any certain brand of bike to get one or the other. I've had 5 punctures in the last 50000 miles, four tubed one tubeless.

Andy

"Adventure" and "worry-free" are two terms that don't go together.

They really don't.

Ask Ted Simon, Austin Vince, Grant Johnson, et al...

I don't think you should worry about what might happen. Just take reasonable care and deal with what life throws at you when it arrives. I have found if the general strategy is sound then the details don't really matter so much. I learned this programming major projects. No amount of scary coding can make a stable program if the strategy is wrong for example, windoze

Ha, that has to be tongue in cheek, demi-frog!

Sounds like you've never tried changing the rear tyre on a Tenere. Chris Scott writes about the problem at Sealing spoked rims to run tubeless tyres | Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

Although running tubes, the Tenere has a tubeless-style safety rim.

I've had three rear punctures and two front punctures on the (tubed) Tenere in 50000km. On my (tubed) XR400R I had two punctures in 30000km. None so far on the (tubed) KTMs. But in more than 300000km on tubeless tyres on 1200GS, GSA and F650GS twin, I've had just one puncture.

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Beemer, Super Ten and Triumph (and others?) all have tubeless. Reckon it's down to cost mostly- bet those cross spoke wheels cost a bomb to make, but they aren't half strong.

One thing- are tubed tyres usually crossplies? If they are, then that is a good reason to go tubeless and enjoy radials instead. I hate crossplies.

As for fixing- do I want to remove a wheel, then the tyre and fanny about with tubes when it's 45 degrees in the shade? Do I hell, 5 minutes and a plug in a tubeless is my bag. I once had a rear tyre on an XJ900 sliced by a flint in France and the guy just put a patch on the inside of the tyre Got me home though....

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My two pence worth...

There is no doubt that a SMALL puncture is much easier to fix on a tubeless tyre. Effortless....

And if I were road riding in western countries (where spares and repairs are easy) then I'd go for tubeless all day long..

However, there are CONSIDERABLE drawbacks to tubeless wheels on a motorcycle when over-landing.

Cast rims are far more fragile. They have no 'give' and 'flex' that you get in a spoked rim. Those spokes are a latices of shock absorbers. They don't help with off-roading at all. More weight and harsher ride... This can lead to cracks..

If you crack or break a tubeless wheel you are well and truly stuck. If you're lucky you will find someone who can TIG weld your wheel whilst keeping the correct profile and bead in place. Good luck with that though. It's a specialist job.

Snap a spoke or ding your wheel and unless you're REALLY unlucky, you can keep on rolling.

If you split a tyre on a tubeless wheel you are also screwed. You aren't repairing that one. No amount of slime and wedges are going to help you. I put a 2" gash in my rear tyre in Ethiopia. With a tube, I was able to ride another 60 miles to a town where I patched the tyre and carried on another 200 miles before I could replace it. If I did that with a tubeless tyre, Id probably still be on that remote village road now or hundreds of pounds worse off trying to get a tyre shipped in.

Availability of tyres are DRAMATICALLY increased with tubes as well. You can almost run anything... This is also a huge factor on a long trip.


So yeah, fixing punctures in tubes is a pain in the arse. But at least I CAN fix it and get moving again.

And all this "BMW spoked wheels are great" is cack. Yes you can fix a small puncture like normal tubeless but those tyres are VERY difficult to change if you have to. You see 'GS Adventure' Riders with spare tyres that they intend to use as spares if they gash theur tyres...

Even with the big professional tyre machines at work, it's a struggle... They can take 120 PSI to re-seat too. Even with plenty of tyre soap.... I wouldn't even bother to try and change one by hand. Fools errand unless I was absolutely forced to try.

Another tip... If you're a GS rider, DO NOT run RDC pressure sensors. They are the flimsiest things in the world. They snap off just by looking at them and make tyre changing even more difficult. There is a special way to change tyres with them on a machine so you don't destroy them. Someone with no experience of them will probably tear them off on a tyre machine..

I've lost count of the amount of bikes that end up at our place on recovery trucks after the poor owner snapped off the aluminium valve stem with very little force. You can't repair them and you need to re-valve the wheel. Try that on the side of the motorway...

All so you can see your tyre pressures on your dash board....

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

What's to stop you putting a tube in a tubeless tyre? Bet an old tyre wouldn't need 120psi to seat. And even if you do need a lift to the nearest town someone usually happens along sooner or later.

Agree that alloy wheels aren't up to the job.

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You could... You still need to get the tyres on and off though..

That's A LOT harder with a tubeless tyre as the rim has a much deeper bead and the tyres generally have a stiffer side wall. They take more PSI to correctly seat too...

Give it a go

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

And yet, and yet... There are all those GSs running around the world and people seem to manage. My last puncture was the one on the XJ mentioned earlier and that was 20 years ago. Must get out more...

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We had a bad cut in a tubeless tyre in Malawi. Don't know what caused it but debris on the road is more common in Africa. We fitted a tube but had no means of plugging or patching the gash in the tyre so the tube lasted about 5 miles. Eventually we were left with no alternative but to ride on the flat back the way we'd come. We spent some time trying to source a 17" tyre in Malawi and in the end had to order one from Johannesburg and get it flown in.

I currently have tubeless tyres on the bike but no plans to go far. If I use the bike for another extended trip I will definitely fit tubed tyres. I will also carry some means of patching the inside of the tyre so that in the event of a cut there will be something to protect the new tube. I'd rather have the means to keep going in any event even if it means that I don't have quite the same convenience for repairing small pin holes.

One other point: The tyre that split was a Metzeler Sahara tubeless (T/L), it was a sod to get off the rim and back on and difficult to seat even with a lot of pressure. The tyre that was supplied from SA was a Metzeler Sahara tubed type (TT). They said that they didn't have the T/L type available in SA. This was much easier to get onto the rim and seated perfectly on the first attempt.

Great story ... and good lesson!
I too have noticed TT type tires mount/dismount more easily than TTL type.
Tube tires also run COOLER than tubeless ... and wear LONGER.

One tip for future reference ... in many less developed countries they have tire repair Kiosks. Tires there are terribly expensive and locals have developed all sorts of repair techniques to avoid buying a new tire. The repair techniques used would be totally ILLEGAL in USA or EU.

We had a side wall split in Mexico. Someone CUT the tire! About a 2 inch gash in side wall. No way would a Mexican throw away a tire with a split side wall if tire still had lots of tread on it. They fix it! The Llantero guy didn't even blink. "No hay problema!"

They VULCANIZE on a patch on the inside. Creates a HUGE smoke bomb and they literally melts the tire. They do this all the time ... especially on big truck tires. The patch was thin and smooth so did not interfere with the tube.

Is that tire 100% safe by our "modern western standards"?
Uh, hmmm .... no! (keep your speed down!)

But it will get you going on down the road. The case I witnessed (friends bike) it was a tube type tire ... and we put in a new tube. But honestly, I think the Mexican Llantero guys could have done the same repair on a split tubeless tire ... and it would hold.

It looks like HELL ... but actually works. 100% illegal in the USA. (the smoke is highly toxic!) My friend ran the tire ... at high speed ... for another 1500 miles. NO PROBLEM! The split did not re-appear, tire carcass seemed OK. Amazing. Nothing is thrown away ... although all those old time values are quickly being lost ... RTW.

My experience after using the same type of wheels in both tubed and tubeless configuration is exactly the opposite

G'day all - I'd be interested to know now people are changing their tyres which are fitted with the RDC or TPMS.

What tips are out there to remove the and replace the tyre safely without damage to the RDC?

I'm on the verge of deciding if I should remove the RDC totally and re-valve the rim in preparation for an outback ride.

I also see the HU Meeting will be in Jindabyne NSW later in 2016 - great stuff, hope to meet people there.

Cheers
Dave

Yes, AFAIK, most tube tires are belted (cross plies) vs. high end road tires which are steel belted. Much better puncture protection from the steel screen and a stronger, longer lasting tire as well.

Not sure why Tube type tires do not use steel belts :confused1: ... but most don't. Most 600 class dual sport bikes use tube type tires, but some riders convert to tubeless by sealing the spokes and installing a tubeless valve. (yes, can be done) or use tubeless type rims to start.

For ALL road, ALL the time, tubeless gets my vote too ... but that's not on the menu' for me. I like exploring dirt roads and crossing Deserts. I'm done trying to Horse around a heavy monster off road that can squish me like a Grape. Too much like work. Even a 600 is work, but doable.

Another solution we used on our Enduro race bikes (AMA Enduro) was to use an old inner tube as a liner for extra protection. Adds a layer. Doing this I got only ONE flat in 8 years of competition ... and that was a front tire (with NO liner!) which I continued to ride to the finish of the event flat. (Metzeler dirt tires are super stiff)

I would consider using a liner on rear tire ... as the rear is the bugger.
Fronts are a 10 to 15 minute job most times. Easy.

I've witnessed Mexican Llanteros (tire repair guys) vulcanize on BIG patches (piece of old tire) to the inside of a tire to heal up a slice. Damned if it doesn't work. Lots of toxic smoke and fire involved ... and that's why it's 100% illegal in USA and probably EU/UK. Is that tire 100% safe? No way ... but it'll get you another 1000 miles. (slowly)

Ted's pic earlier in the thread shows an improvised vulcanizer. That is exactly how they do patches in Mexico as well .... minus the Noon Prayer.

Often times in the 3rd (or less developed) world there are plenty of tire repair places in small towns or villages. True in much of Mexico, Cent. America, also true in Thailand and Cambodia. So if you get a flat and you're not too far, often you can ride flat to town for repair. Have a cold ... while they do ALL the work. (with you watching near by).
Tres dolarles por favor! I've done this MANY times. (for myself and riding buddies)