Now i don't generally go with the whole "Speed kills" mantra that the Preaching groups give out - i've blasted around Germany as a Squaddy on fast bikes and had a ball (off-the-clock on zx10's, what a rush!). But now all that's out of my system i simply enjoy pootling about enjoying the ride and not worrying too much about the Rozzers. 50 on an A-road suits me fine, no less mind... 40 around the central Balkans was just tooo slow. Must be getting old, eh .

Guys, if you want to influence the government, kick them where it hurts. Buy pre 1972 Enfields converted to diesel. That way you pay no road tax and very little fuel tax. These bikes will be ideal for the road conditions they want to impose.. Their enthusiasm for it will decline exponentially with the loss of revenue.

A 10 hp diesel will happily cruise at 50mph or 60 at about 170 mpg. ( and if you use veg oil they wont even get the tax on that )

If they were serious about improving road safety, they would invest in education and training, not limits, but that would cost money not generate it, so that won't happen, will it?

I am soooo glad that I left the UK.

There are things I miss, but the slow demise of personal freedoms for questionable reasons is not one of them. I can accept restrictions in society if I can see a genuine benefit to society, but in many cases I can't and I simply don't trust the government to do things because they are the right things to do: they always seem to have an ulterior motive.

It does not help that the British are far too apathetic when it comes to things of principle, IMO. If people in the UK can't see the immediate benefit to them, they don't bother. So anyone living outside the affected areas won't think "we're next", but rather "well, doesn't affect me..." And hey presto, before you know it its too late...

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

A major research institution (MRI) has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest chemical element yet known to science. The new element has been tentatively named Governmentium.

Governmentium has 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of governmentium causes one reaction to take over four days to complete when it would normally take less than a second. Governmentium has a normal half-life of three years; it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists to speculate that governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass

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www.overlandcruiser.wordpress.com

Some time ago I saw that Clarkson (who lives in Chipping Norton) had a rant about the low limit on the A44 in his Times column, saying he fears that one day he'll come round a corner to find another car on his side of the road overtaking dangerously because the driver grew frustrated behind someone sticking to an inapproporiate limit. Natuarally the official resonse was to ignore his article and misrepresent what he said.

Not sure what to do about the imposition of such limits; I've written to my MP and his response was that he generally approves of motherhood and is quite partial to apple pie. I did see that the Libertarian Party are planning a big campaign in the next election (unless Brown invokes the Civil Contingencies Act and "postpones" it) so there may be hope there. Other than that, my daughter leaves school in 18 months and I will go travelling, so the time I spend in the UK will much reduce.

Hi Mark

Nice to hear that there is some support and Clarkson does make a good point about overtaking due to boredom and even worse driving due to being on the road longer.

My point to this thread is that I believe the Government are not doing this as a safety issue, as the Police and many others, some in the AA, RAC, ROSPA, IAM advise against it, but this is simply to broaden the net of motorists who can be caught and finded (cha ching!) as almost akk vehicles, bar restricted 50's, tractors, balers, milk floats, Royal Enfield diesels, unless they are on a 3 in 1 incline, are capable of hitting 55MPH.

This will lead to a new spate of heavy braking, that will cause serious collisions (as they are not called accidents anymore) and instead of having a momentary lapse and seeing a cop or speed camera and braking from say 68 MPH to around 64MPH you will have to brake from that or less to under 52 MPH.

But as long as those thoughtless penpushers fill the coffers, they won't worry about that!

Drink is the answer, I'm off to a real pub for a pint of Old Hooky!

Bye

Chris

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[/SIZE] "Live dangerously for as long as you can!"

Should I ever come round a corner and be hit by some pillock on my side of the road who had made a concious decision to put my life at risk because he or she was bored by being forced to travel at the speed limit, I would hope that they would at least, have their license taken away permanently. If you wish to kill or maim, do it to yourself, do not involve others. Please do not treat this as just another sanctimonious rant, I have been the victim of a driver who put his needs/pleasures before the welfare of others and believe me, it hurts. Ride safe.

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Mike
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Mike is riding the twisty road in the sky

Would you not then prefer the law to be heavily against such selfish people? My own preference would be to remove a lot of the traffic laws and instead have draconian investigation rules and punishments. Instead of everyone having to do 50 all the time, make the 60 limit reccomended. Ride at 90 because the road is clear, no harm done. Ride at 60 in fog and get spotted by the police as dangerous or worse still hit something and the first thing that should happen is your driving license is suspended. No riding until it goes to court. If the police make the case this was dangerous you are banned for years, if not that's the end of it. Use the information on the road as a guide, not rigid and often inexplicable rules.

The idea that everyone will have to take time off work and so on for one stupid person will make everyone look at the skills they employ on the road. The I'm-doing-speed-limit-and-am-safe-even-though-i'm-paying-no-attention excuse should be removed.

Andy

If I felt we could trust the police enough (BIG "IF") I would call for the abolition of all speed limits and other restrictions and their replacement with a catch all offence of "Driving in an inappropriate or unsafe manner" (think of it as the ultimate extension of the Dutch Drenth experiment where all roadsigns were removed so drivers had to think about their driving). This would catch anyone driving too fast for the conditions and anyone causing delays and frustration by driving too slowly or any other form of bad or dangerous driving. The problem is that it depends on the judgement of a police officer, and they have lost public confidence, so such a scheme couldn't work.

Such a soltuion would be interesting, but I don't think that the UK has instilled the same sense of civic duty that you might find in places like The Netherlands, Denmark, Germany etc...

However, I'd trust a policeman over a speed camera any day of the week in terms of subjectivity.

I've had a finger wagged in my face on one occasion. I could have been booked but I was not. I've attended the Bike Safe course and spoken to the Police at their stand at the London bike show. I think, barring a few tin-gods, they are pretty fair, and even handed...

The problem for the police is that government has tied their hands. They have ridiculous targets to meet so that the PM can look good at election time, whilst doing nothing to address the causes of the UK's problems, on the road or elsewhere, endless paperwork, keeping them from actually getting out there, etc.

I posted earlier about education being the solution. I stand by that, as well as adding better public transport to the pot.
Better transport = more financially viable option for the public + fewer drivers on the roads = few accidents

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

I never met a bad Uk traffic cop (the old style ones with the white covers on their hats). I've done bikesafe and talked with a few on business (I used to be in truck brakes) and they seemed genuinely sensible and quite happy to give more warnings than tickets. Of the two tickets I've had, one was well deserved (46 in a brand new 30 zone, enough to get banned but the white top cop knew it wasn't unsafe so wrote it up as 42) while the other was some pander car mounted clown who will by now have been replaced by a camera up a pole. I was doing 45 on a dual carriageway that was obviously designed as a 70 but had been dropped to 40.

IMHO, when you start a new policy you start a highway patrol too, it makes the system the same country wide. After a few weeks of lots of warnings and lectures and a few real clowns seriously banned, the public is going to trust the highway patrol even if you can't stand the heavy brigade looking for fights in your town centre on a Friday night, or your local CID who couldn't catch a bloke in stripes carrying a bag marked swag.

Andy

Also look at the clown clad quasimodo (Humpback suit brigade) who on sunny sundays come out and ride like loonies upseting everyone in every village and small town on these roads with extra loud pipes extra fast speed and glorious dramatic crashes injuring themselves and others before going back to the office /bank/ other suit - there you have the reason for the road safety lot to do what they are doing. Modern sunday bikers have knacked it for everyone. (along with the boy racers in there cars)

Right on the head. I once spoke to a police motorcyclist about Performance Bike's articles and comments. I said they displayed an irresponsible view that added to crazy riding. The copper said he'd spoken to some of the magazine's journalists and they had a razor edge to ride in publishing an acceptable magazine that would actually sell. Good point, but the adrenaline junkies are wrecking it for all others. I suggest four new race tracks for them to get them off the roads for us to use. Debate. Linzi.

Interestingly there is a free bike circuit outside Paris called circuit Carole, IIRR.

Having said that I think its a bit unjust to say that all Sunday riders are irresponsible lunatics. I used to ride Sportsbikes and we used to ride pretty quick, but our group was still safe, IMO. No accidents apart from a couple of lowsides, no convictions, either. It was a case of where is it safe to open up the throttle and where not. Needless to say it was not in built up areas or areas with heavy traffic.

To blame this situation on sportsbike riders I think is unrealistic and wishful thinking. Yes there are some cretins, but no more than there are cretins riding around on any bike type. Stupidity is not reserved for superbike riders and, acceleration aside, I think many people have misguided views of how fast sportsbike riders ride. After all, a Varadero or Vstrom 1000 will hit 130mph....

My point is that pointing the finger at the sportsbike riding community is not the answer nor the solution. If some bikers travel at ridiculous speeds how is dropping the limit from 60 to 50 going to change anything, especially if they are riding at over a ton as some suggest? Makes no sense to me...

On top of that, we all know that bikers are a very small proportion of the road using community and sports riders are only about 30% of that. You should also factor in the boy racers, the sunday Lotus Elise owners, the White Van drivers, the sales reps the BMW 5 series midlife crisis brigade, if we're going to generalise...

In fact, I think us blaming other road users helps vindicate the government's actions. We give them the perfect excuse to push for these limits...

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Warthog, Point Taken and in many ways agreed with,
I know what I say is a very sweeping and general, I have also rode sportsbikes for over 30 years along with other machines however there is a very large and notable element of riders who stand out in there behavior sometimes travelling in large groups sometimes individuals but as I say often travelling at speed on race reps in race leathers etc they stand out a lot - many of these people dont ride bikes other than as a hobby often at sunny weekends and meet at Bike Cafes etc,The bikes are often no more than another trinket on these peoples Tick Box ! - they may be a minority but the impact they have is on the majority. It grieves me to see people constantly blaming the Police or some other authority without first looking inwards at why the problem exists in the first place. I feel as someone who has been riding bikes almost every day to work, for holidays and travelling and have done so for over 35 years to have my freedoms taken away because of these idiots and some of elements of the press who promote the actions is just too much. Bye the way many of these types wouldnt give lip service to anyone on a dirty or old or well used bike so really I dont include them in the framework of genuine people with a love of bikes whether sports /trail / chop or whatever. Bye the way I am getting older now so just becoming a bitter twisted misery.