Absolutely not ... you have no right to demand anything from banks or bankers.

Just like I have no right to demand anything from you. Nor do I have the right to demand plumbers in the UK work cheaper.

You have the right to move money from a financial institution whose policies you dont like to one you do like.

If you think you can operate a superior model of financial institution, you have every right to try and make one and profit from the fact that your model appeals to the consumer better than existing banks! If you think there is that much demand for it, then you will be very successful. You absolutely have the right to try.

But you have no right to demand other banks or bankers behave in a way that you personally or even the majority of the population see fit.

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As much as I want to agree with what Cole said earlier, perhaps the lesson first needs to be adopted by governments to let other jurisdictions run themselves as they see fit or not be allowed to play ball. The OECD TIEA and FATCA are designed to prevent the "competition" of places which have built themselves on banking.
But before this digresses to debate on "tax havens" at least I don't need a carnet to visit them..........!
So is there any cheaper way to get a carnet if the RAC are digging their heels in?
Richard (stashing his money under the mattress)

Just a few of things.

-I thought the anti banking post was unnecessary, but choose not to say anything, there is always that thing about arguing with fools.
-Walter you could have asked a Mod to remove it that would have been simpler than an economics lesson.

On topic, what really is the difference between leaving the RAC with a bond and paying the charges on a bank guarantee? I can't see it would be a whole lot different.

Also there have been some various threads suggesting that Africa is now possible with Temp Imports, including Egypt.

See here and here.

That just leaves the Middle East, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Japan, New Zealand and that other big over regulated place next to New Zealand.

Hi Craig
Could you copy the bits from this post relevant to the Carnet thread back into it?

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TBS.com

Partially true. You can demand something bank owes you something (ie the money you deposited), or you can demand something from banks if they broke the law. Best to stay away from absolutes in my opinion as it forces you to really consider what is being said.

However, answering to the spirit of your statement: citizens most certainly have the right to demand better banks/ banking practices. They do so all the time, albeit indirectly, at the legislative level. People even organize to 'demand', directly or indirectly, that the workers of particular industries get paid less or more. Happens all the time in various societies. Dunno if it'll get your toilet fixed any cheaper. I guess what I'm saying is don't give up hope.

Also, as you pointed out, banks are highly important to society. Hence, I think most citizens are obliged to demand ever better banks. How to prevent the populace from shooting themselves in the foot via over-regulation is another issue altogether.

Stating that I am entitled to 'start a better bank' is a non-sequitur. I'm not saying that I could do better, or that new banks should be started. There are better ways of fixing the problems using existing banks. Additionally, profitable is not the same as ethical, beneficial to society, or the conforming to the desires of the people. There is loads to be said about this.

To what extent does the developed world benefit from more capital/ capitalism? For example, inflation adjusted GDP per-capita in the US has tripled in the past 50 years, but results from life satisfaction surveys remain flat over the same time period. Think about that. Fifty years of material and capitol development for no significant increase in subjective well being.


How much regulation should there be?
What aspects of banking should be subject to regulation and by whom?
Should the HUBB be demanding a seat at the next G20 conference?

all good questions.

As a follow up to how banking is progressing in democratic Iceland (multiple referenda) here is another case study which is ongoing (non stable and non democratic).
New Kabul Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afghan elite ransacked $900m from Kabul Bank, inquiry finds | World news | guardian.co.uk

Consider who is ripping off who.

Incidentally, a news item stated today that Honduras is in financial meltdown.

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Dave

However when a bank customer screws up there is a fee, when a bank screws up there is none (well not really anyway). And when most/all financial institutions act in a similar/identical way, do we really have a choice? (note: I cannot comment on local/regional small banks, you may have a good one? I don't know)

The fees are where the banks are now making big money. However due to low interest rates, depositors (mostly responsible Middle/working Class people)are loosing money everyday their money is in a bank. (albeit low risk mind you) Wages are not going up, prices are. Inflation is based on cost of living and wages. The way to mask inflation over the short term is to depress wages. Wages for the lower 95% are being depressed worldwide.

The easy blame is on the China/Asia region, when in fact it is the multinational banks. No, many smaller banks do not fit this mold. Contrary, many USA banks (my country) are the queen of this, and London is the King(due to slightly less regulations, same corporations though).



Should we keep money in our mattresses? Technology is getting cheaper by the day, but it is not the type of technology that lowers the costs of the necessities to live. This post is getting too long, and conviluded... Ask me about price vs value when I am truly drunk, it's fun

"But you have no right to demand other banks or bankers behave in a way that you personally or even the majority of the population see fit."

I find this statement quite bizarre. People demand all sorts of behaviors out of me all day long: that I do certain things and not others at traffic lights, that I refrain from killing or seriously maiming my blameless fellow citizens, that I act in certain ways when dealing with contracts, money, possessions, manner of dress, etc. etc. etc.

For example, I'm forbidden, under penalty of law, to defraud other people, institutions, or the government. "Fraud" is defined in various ways for various situations--in my professional work I'm actually required to conform to a fairly strict definition of acceptable behaviors. So are auto mechanics. So are lawyers. And like it or not, so are bankers.

To claim otherwise--that no one can impose rules restricting the behaviors of bankers--just doesn't make sense...unless, of course, you're a pure anarchist, who believes that no one has any right to limit any behavior but their own under any circumstances. If that's the case, I respectfully decline to engage any further.

Mark

In fact, some banks are better than others, and if you can't be bothered to find the good ones and move your money to them, then you are just being lazy. I currently have money in a handful of banks, and if their service fails to impress, I transfer my money to another one and close the account. While I can't say that I have found the perfect bank yet, I at least try to reward good banks with more deposits and penalize bad ones by closing accounts. If you act like all banks all the same and do business with bad banks, you are part of the problem...

Not sure where to start here, because it is not clear what you are saying--you are blaming banks for paying low interest rates? Or for depressing wages? Or both? How do you mask inflation by depressing wages?

Well, as it's The Bar, I'll put a sixpence in the jukebox.



Maybe Pride Germination from Zimbabwe can help - they know all about inflation over there.
(The video is snowflakes on a cobweb - completely irrelevant!)

Inflation - too much money chasing too few goods, so increase the prices. Or, reduce the wages - same effect.
The difference between the two, as I understand, are the different effects on the value of a country's currency, decided by the 'government' and the finance sector lobbying it.

Yes, dead right to say that.
I think throughout here (my posting anyway) 'bank' and 'banking profession' always means 'those board directors responsible for how a bank behaves within the community in which it operates'.

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TTR250 - London to Cape Town

Inflation, is by definition, an increase in the cost of goods and services, which are determined only partially by wages, and mainly by other factors (competition, raw materials, duties, regulations, etc.). If you freeze, or even reduce wages, it would therefore have only very limited effect on inflation, and such effect would not be "masking" inflation, but reducing it to some degree.

I think the convoluted nature and size of this thread shows clearly the universal nature of banking and the wide impact that it has on everyone.

Perhaps the moderators for the bar conversation would make this a sticky; otherwise when this thread does come to an end (but probably not any firm conclusions) it will disappear; as I said earlier, there is some serious education in here for us.
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance".

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Dave

i can't quite face reading back through all the previous history , but I do know one thing
They (a bank) pay my wages and have let me take a year out to do my planned world trip.. - And no I don't get big bonuses and they pay me the going rate for my job.

High ranking big cheeses in any company are the one's who get the big buks £million pay offs, and such like - Industry is full of them. Football is full of them .

Every company out there wants to make big profits for their shareholders, with customer satisfaction coming secondary to that primary goal.

Banks are no worse than any other industry you are to mention.

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Mark
http://chasingdreams2014.blogspot.co.uk/

Maybe you should take the time to read the rest of the thread....

The general perception, true or not, is that banks and bankers are worse than most other industries.

I think the rip off factor is just more overt in finance related industries as that is their only raison d'etre - to take money off people. I suppose the reductionist could say that that is all any business is about, though. Which is probably true.

But there are many sectors that are not about that - public service, police, medicine in some countries, nursing, most professions allied to health, teaching etc etc. It probably stands to reason that there are less cads in those fields than in banking or other business, as the motivation for entering the field in the first place is not the same.

However, there are good and bad in every walk of life and that's a fact. I'm sure it would be possible to do a study of sorts to look at conviction rates in various industries for various offenses - it would be interesting to see the results of that particular study....