I have worked in Banking, Construction and Technology Industries.

The biggest fraud I witnessed in my time was in the construction industry, should I therefore draw the conclusion that construction industry workers has more bad eggs than any other? Of course not.

Saying bankers have more bad eggs based on Libor thing or Bernie Madoff is the same thing. Remember the LIBOR thing involved a handful of individuals as did Bernie Madoff. I haven't gone through everything Drwnite posted but most of it is rubbish or acts of individuals. Millons of people word wide work in this sector.

Saying CDOs were some sort gross corporate fraud is wrong - I would say it was a too smart by half way of minimising risk, like many things that are too smart by half it didn't quite work out, bit like traction control on dirt bikes, sounds great, until you have to power up a loose hill and the traction control cuts the power.

I just don't buy that these were created to expressly rip investors off, guess what big companies do dumb things.
You can either choose to believe:
- that CDOs were created as part of vast conspiracy, involving boards, CEOs, securities dealers etc all working together to create financial instruments that were designed to fail and sold to investor on this basis.
- or that CDOs were created to repackage debt to better manage default risks, but actually when combined with lax lending practices had the reverse effect.

The first an act of maliciousness on a grand scale, the second carelessness.

To me the second is much easier to believe.

Bank bashing is just lazy.

Want to see a world without banks, look at the former Soviet Union, they had "scientists, engineers, mathematicians, teachers, farmers, heavy equipment operators, politicians, lawyers and (yes) soldiers", in some cases the best in the world, hardly led world living standards (or mostly innovation). Banks and the things the facilitate is the difference.


Anyway, Walter rather than arguing about banking, I believe you have a ride report to complete.

.............. let the buyer beware.

I would like to think that this thread will be of some use to the youthful individuals among us - including those who come to view this in the future (when I am long dead and buried) in order to better understand what they are not taught in their main stream education.

I believe that it is still too early to say if the collaterised debt obligations (CDO) have been as you prefer to view it; to give the benefit of the doubt to that system.
For me, the jury is still out.

Maybe you could elaborate on the "second half" of the circumstances that Markharf suffered under - the credit default swaps that underpinned the risk taking of the CDOs?

__________________
Dave