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31 Oct 2011
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As much as I respect 1 groups so called "rights" over another, the paths of the peaks and dales were *not* meant for 4x4 or bike riding. I'm not even sure I find push bike riding acceptable.
Green lanes are for horses, cattle etc. Routes for farmers etc.
ILets face it, the only reason a 4x4 or bike goes there is to find the rough bits and go through them, making them worse.
There are sections of the Berwyns that are now nearly un-walkable due to the deep ruts cut into the, by off road vehicles.
There is only 1 simple easy solution IMO, and it is not to ban vehicles or a group of people.
For the sake of the environment, just make the national parks "zero emission zones".
Job done.
:-)
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31 Oct 2011
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Well said Bruce, sadly I do think that many of the weekend bikers sans silencers are very selfish people and 1 over reving biker, quad biker or 4+4 driver has a much greater effect on the countryside and the people/animals therein than a walker no matter how irresponsable that walker might be. Mechanical things rip up land and cause mud baths in lanes and right of ways which were designed for a completely different type of user. In addition, the noise and smell they create pollutes a very large area. Do what happens in other places, use an old polluted brown field site and let them play on that, they can create all of the riding/driving challenges they wish and offend no-one if they fit silencers. Ride safe,
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31 Oct 2011
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Bruce P and Maja, Whats it like to be so 'self righteous'?
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31 Oct 2011
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Arguing on who has the right gets nobody anywhere..
What are the possible solutions ??
Personally I think that there should be dedicated days that off-roaders are allowed to use the green lanes. Tuesdays and Sundays for example.
That way there are plenty of days in the week for the ramblers to enjoy their retirement in total peace and if they chose to use the lanes on the motorised days, then it's really their own choice.
There needs to be a compromise. Sadly, there are too many people for this country and anything green is quickly being built over or developed.
The problem is only going to get worse. If you blanket ban the bikes and cars they will only find illegal places to ride where people really will get hurt.
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31 Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Arguing on who has the right gets nobody anywhere..
What are the possible solutions ??
Personally I think that there should be dedicated days that off-roaders are allowed to use the green lanes. Tuesdays and Sundays for example.
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WTF, There are SEVEN days in a week so no compromise, BOATS that they are on about are OPEN to ALL traffic 24/7, they either put up with it or move.
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31 Oct 2011
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Common sense is welcome along any footpath, bridleway, B.O.A.T or green lane whether on foot,horseback,two or four wheels.
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31 Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palace15
WTF, There are SEVEN days in a week so no compromise, BOATS that they are on about are OPEN to ALL traffic 24/7, they either put up with it or move.
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Now there's a tolerant, mature attitude 
John
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31 Oct 2011
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What I find interesting is that some people on this m/c (predominantly) and 4x4 (to a lesser extent) travel forum think it’s ok to prevent their fellow m/c&4x4 travellers from using their legal (taxed/road-worthied/insured) motor vehicle on a legal (green a.k.a non paved) road.
How would you feel if when you’re travelling through other parts of the world to be restricted to pavement only? You then can all safely sell your “dual-sport” (FWIW the BMW GS moniker stands for Gelaende/Strasse = offroad/ onroad) bikes and get a road bike because you won’t need the better suspension/off road capabilities.
Trans Africa pavement only?
Ruta 40 pavement only?
Mongolia pavement only?
etc
etc
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31 Oct 2011
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The number of miles BOATS is miniscule compared that of bridleways and footpaths. There is no need to exclude vehicles from what little access they have. I am a TRF member and I do not go out on the lanes looking for awkward bits to negotiate leaving a trail of destruction in my wake. I go out to enjoy the countryside and my motorcycle. It is TRF policy to stop, kill engine and remove helmet when a horse and rider is spotted and not to proceed again until it is well out of the way. It is also TRF policy to keep below 20mph. There are some that do not comply with this of course, but they are a minority. The TRF are also conscious that large groups of bikes can annoy therefore will split into smaller groups if necessary.
If all users just exhibited common courtesy to each other there would not be an issue.
4x4 use is a little different in my opinion as they can cause some horrible damage if the drivers don`t show a bit of common sense when the ground is very soft.
In my opinion the villagers in the programme were just typical of people who have too much time on their hands and they came over simply as `nimbys`
The byways were there when they bought their house. As said above, If they don`t like it they should move.
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3 Nov 2011
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There is no way I'm argueing against the rights of 'trail riders' to use the legal trails, BUT as with the sportsbikes on the road there are a lot of enduro riders who take the view that trails/green lanes are their own private race track. Unfortunately, as others have said, the UK is densely populated and there are limited places where you can 'let rip'.
The problem is internal, yes I'm well aware there are a lot of illegal users on mini motos and the like, but at the same time there are a lot of inconsiderate stunt jockeys who really should save it for races.
I don't know what the answer is but for me trail riding is all about the exploration and challenge of new trails - not about ploughing a furrow up the same track as I did last weekend.
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3 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzerrtw
Your spot on
when I was a Kid we used to walk the 3 peaks
Now a lot of it has been paved..and why ........Because the 1000's of walkers had caused so much erosion and the paths had become as wide as a main road in places that the YDNP had to spend a fourtune to put it right.
Now.... while these footpaths were under repair the NP laid pallets covered in mesh so the walkers could still gain access to the area.
Now a green lane may only have 100 yards of damaged but the NP can put a TRO on it and close it...
I'm not smart enough to work that one out...Because to me that seems Unfair  |
For this, it is as well to understand about the local politics that come to bear, the lobbying and such that happens within local councils. I touched on this with my earlier post. Basically, there is a limited pot of money to maintain all minor projects such as BOATs, Bridleways and footpaths, so the money will tend to go to those who shout the loudest and with the biggest number of members (the Ramblers Association is enormous compared with the TRF for example). When NPs come into play, it gets more complicated. There are even more political considerations which were touched upon in that documentary, but were not explored in any detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon
There is no way I'm argueing against the rights of 'trail riders' to use the legal trails, BUT as with the sportsbikes on the road there are a lot of enduro riders who take the view that trails/green lanes are their own private race track. Unfortunately, as others have said, the UK is densely populated and there are limited places where you can 'let rip'.
The problem is internal, yes I'm well aware there are a lot of illegal users on mini motos and the like, but at the same time there are a lot of inconsiderate stunt jockeys who really should save it for races.
I don't know what the answer is but for me trail riding is all about the exploration and challenge of new trails - not about ploughing a furrow up the same track as I did last weekend.
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I understand that some local branches of the TRF are cooperating with police forces to report illegal riders. This could lead to problems for individuals of course! Some branches of the TRF make an effort to assist in repairing bits of BOATs that are worn. These are but 2 examples of practical efforts to deal with the complainers. I have yet to hear of the Ramblers Association taking similar initiatives.
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4 Nov 2011
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Green lanes
Follow Spains example.
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1 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Arguing on who has the right gets nobody anywhere..
What are the possible solutions ??
Personally I think that there should be dedicated days that off-roaders are allowed to use the green lanes. Tuesdays and Sundays for example.
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But I like to walk on Sundays, and I am not retired. Can we restrict the bikes and 4x4s to Tuesdays and Thursdays please ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
That way there are plenty of days in the week for the ramblers to enjoy their retirement in total peace and if they chose to use the lanes on the motorised days, then it's really their own choice.
There needs to be a compromise. Sadly, there are too many people for this country and anything green is quickly being built over or developed.
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And there is the problem. Shall we change the subject to building on Brown belt land ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
The problem is only going to get worse. If you blanket ban the bikes and cars they will only find illegal places to ride where people really will get hurt.
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Or, they may find legal places. There is nothing to stop an enterprising land owner from setting up an off road course.
Or, demand to be treated like skateboarders and have the local council build a site on common land.
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1 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palace15
Bruce P and Maja, Whats it like to be so 'self righteous'?
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I don't know.
What is it like to be so self centered ?
:-P
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1 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palace15
Bruce P and Maja, Whats it like to be so 'self righteous'?
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What´s it like to be so self righteous? Pretty cool, especially here in Chile where I am at present riding on big boy´s dirt roads and offending no-one. Ride safe.
p.s. like the pun?
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Last edited by maja; 1 Nov 2011 at 19:34.
Reason: spell checj doesn´t work
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