Hi there,

I am fairly new to this forum, and I hope I have selected the right branch for my question.

My husband and I are planning to ride from Europe towards Mongolia
(travel time somewhere around 5 or 6 months), route undecided as of yet, when our wee one is "old enough". He is only 10 months old now, so we may have to wait a little longer still . We were thinking of my husband taking him in a sidecar and me riding my own bike.

We were thinking that the last year before he starts school would be a good time, as it means that a) he will be old enough b) we wouldn't have the hassle of taking him out of school and c) it gives us time to save up

What do you guys think about a 5 year old in a sidecar to and through Mongolia? Would that work?

Do you know of any blogs of people that have travelled or are travelling with young-ish kids in sidecars.

Cheers

An Australian couple David and Emy Woodburn travelled extensively on an R80G/S with their daughter in the sidecar crossing from Europe to Asia several times and travelling the length of Africa. They now live in the US and David runs a BMW repair shop, I cannot find any blogs by them but if you search on-line for Barnsley motor werks you should find them.

Welcome.


Have you driven an outfit before?


My experience with children is very limited, but happy to answer based on adults, dogs and shorter trips with youngsters if the question is about the technicalities.


First thought if you haven't driven one before is to suggest getting a go as number one priority. Driving an outfit is absolutely nothing like riding a bike and I'd say about 50% of riders who try loath the experience and want to get off at the first left hand bend (and some get their wish to a painful extend).


Andy

I would ride my own bike, my husband would ride the sidecar with our son in it. He has driven a sidecar on a couple of occasions, but that was just for fun. He is totally aware of the fact that they handle completely differently. He has been riding all his life and is confident that he can do it. Also, because he is a bike mechanic he knows a lot of the technical side of things.

I, on the other hand, wouldn't attempt it I have only been riding myself for a couple of seasons and am way too inexperienced.

Can a five year old handle the jandle though, travelling in a sidecar? I realise a lot will depend on him, his character, his interests... and obviously we wouldn't strap him into a sidecar against his will just so Mum and Dad can go on their adventure. But 5 would be old engouh to wear a helmet and travel in a sidecar, isn't it?

Thanks for the tip on the Aussie couple, I will ask Mr Google.

Any more input or experiences welcome!

I met a couple riding 2 up with a sidecar. Their child was about 3. They said it was not a big problem. They had put a net over the sidecar so that he would not crawl out. The holes in the net were big enough for him to look and small enough to prevent him from throwing his toys out! He apparently had fun seeing them bounce down the road.

As long as he is an obedient child,I have seen children that could not seat still for a moment nor respond to the adults pleading,(not parents as the child seems to be control).As he will not be within reach, since the control of the bike is the primary importance,at least until at a dead stop.Our children are very mild mannered-after their mother so I would not be concerned but this would be to me the major decision to make.

My background is exactly the opposite - no sidecar experience (other than as a passenger for a couple of short (UK) trips but I've suffered the trials and tribulations of trying to go places with young children (who are now, fortunately, a bit older).

If your son is 10 months old now he'll be obliged to start school after Easter 2019. Presumably you'll be looking at a summer trip to Mongolia so that'll be summer 2018, when he'll be 4 1/2. Based on what we were doing with our two at that age you might (just) get an hour or two of good will out of a child that age before they get bored and want to get out. Interesting scenery or anything that would keep adults occupied will be as nothing if he is warm, cold, hungry, thirsty, bored or just wants his mother.

And that's based on my placid easy going son. My daughter would not entertain a sidecar trip for more than about 15 secs as she would feel abandoned.

A couple of months of "acclimatisation" beforehand (going to Tesco's etc) might give you some good will through familiarisation but I wouldn't be surprised in our current climate to find "concerned (UK) citizens" expressing their opinion that a three year old in a sidecar is a child welfare issue. Not my opinion as I think kids are more robust than we give them credit for but they certainly have different priorities at that age.

Sorry to say it but this is one occasion where being close to mum and dad is going to matter. At that age some tlc in a TLC will make for an easier and more enjoyable trip for everybody.

The above all makes sense. To get the dogs used to the chair we started with them sitting in it while I built the body then worked up from trips to the local moors, to the coast, to longer stuff.

(Random) thoughts would be:

1. Some sort of restraint is needed. Most sidecar bodies are pretty open and the driver has enough to do without shouting/grabbing passengers who decide any sort of stop means you've arrived.

2. Crash protection is typically non-existant and they do tend to roll when sufficiently tormented. As you also don't want arms and legs outside of the general vehicle profile I'd be thinking along the lines of a child seat bolted down. The net is probably a good idea, it just sounds cruel.

3. Noise isn't good when you are 2 foot from an engine, so some sort of hearing protection is probably in order. For those of us who found out too late: SOME SORT OF HEARING PROTECTION IS GOOD. NO, GOOD, NOT COD, YES, NO, HEARING NOT EARING, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE COD EARINGS...

4. Sidecar bodies tend to be open which gives the issue of rain, sun and dust. The traditional caravan style bodies used with wives and children drop to bits when used anywhere with rough roads (you need to made sure the subframe/fittings are *****y huge and strong BTW). I would therefore go with some sort of spraydeck/poncho type arrangement.

5. 4. is a direct route to dehydration and water is heavy, so a bottle big enough wants to be out by the sidecar wheel.

6. For boredom/control, bluetoothed intercoms are useful. You can talk/listen to music. Three thousand miles of "the wheels on the bus..." are my idea of hell, but maybe a useful idea.

Be aware that Europe has laws about sidecars and bikes and children that are archaic and hardly understood. A sidecar attracts attention, some of which will be negative. I would always wear a helmet in a chair, but neck strength is as much an issue as the law and busybodies.

Do the research and go for it

Andy

I have a 7 year old daughter and sometimes take her as a pillion (morality police permitting) normally when doing this I opt for my high performance road based missile a Honda city express at 49cc at 25 years old now capable of 26mph may be 28 with a good following wind.

I have been stopped by the police twice for this and questioned at length about it... we were in a 30 zone all the way home (2 mile trip)....

I have only been stopped once while doing this on my push bike! Also some countries have laws about minimum ages for passengers! (Austria does and it is 12).

Givi makes a child seat (pillion) called a Givi s650 child seat.

I have also been asked about taking my daughter tree climbing too, I wouldn't mind but I had her in a proper climbing harness so it was quite obvious I had paid some thought to risk mitigation too....

The funny thing is you get beyond Europe and the further you go the more acceptable it is for the whole family to ride, with out crash helmets too! I have seen 5 plus babe in arms and dog in a sling in Cambodia on a small bike!

Thank you all so much for your input so far. Sorry for my late reply, we were busy with a family do over the long weekend.

We are working very hard on that one, we would wish to think that he will grow up to be respectful and obedient.

@Andy
You have raised some very valid points, thanks so much for your input. A few of these issues have already crossed our minds aswell.

Our game plan is the following. Once he is older, we will start off with very short trips down to the shops or into town (4km away) and then gradually extend them to see how he's going.

My husband is a qualified motorcycle engineer who can also weld, grind and do all sorts of stuff <3

We haven't bought the ural yet (but we are researching and keeping an eye out for a suitable one) but already have a few ideas how to modify the sidecar:

1) Build a rollbar.

2) Depending on his age, we want to change the seat over. When he's still little we would install his car seat. For when he's older (and for the actual trip) we are thinking of a seat (maybe a racing seat?) with a 5 point harness in it.

3) For entertainment we were thinking of mounting an old ipad or portable dvd player or something similar into the sidecar so he can watch a movie if he wants to.

4) The sidecar will get a windscreen and will be closed over, maybe with a canvas roof and plastic side windows. No details here yet, other than that it will be closed over

5) My husband thought of some sort of heating. Maybe running a pipe from the engine to the footwell to heat the sidecar up by using the heat that's being produced by the eninge (obviously without leading the exhaust fumes into it )

tbc...

We would also like to use a three-way intercom so we can all communicate with each other.

Keep it coming!

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'Normal' is just a setting on a washing machine.

The Soviet steeds site is the place for Ural info. On the basis that if you have niothing good to say it's bets to say nothing I will restrict my comments to saying the sidecar mounts and body won't need much attention for strength. I'm a well know non-fan of Urals, but many people get on with them.

Heating from the exhaust headers has been done. Wrapping thinbore copper pipe and insulation round the header pipe and then into the chair will transfer heat. I've seen a system where a BMW K-series outfit had the radiator feed taken in small bore copper round a pot to make a slow cooker too. This struck me as likely to stop a trip if it failed, not so good on a bike well able to support electric jackets.

Andy

Lucky kid. Just go ahead.

Hi I had a French Guy & his son, took his son out of school for 12 months for
& take him round Europe.
He stayed at my house contacted me Via HU here is there web site Zac&Oliv

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We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

or F2 Motorcycles in UK very helpful owner

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We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

Whilst riding around Europe, I have often seen bikes with larger sidecars attached that contain one adult and one preschool child, or perhaps one adult and one child between 5 and 7 years of age. These larger sidecars have more or less the same proportions as a normal sidecar, they are just a little bit wider than normal.

It might be less stressful (and less expensive) to have only one motorcycle, with a larger sidecar attached, and put the child and one parent inside that sidecar.

Michael