I live in the US, born there too. However, I am also a Costa Rican, lived there too, family there, we are from there, etc. Dual-national, carry two passports. I have also lived in Europe. My first ride on a motorcycle was as a teen. I am in my 50's now.

Looking at various motorcycle e-boards, I am trying to figure out where in the timeline it became acceptable to greet your friends with insults. These are things like flipping them the finger in photos, referring to them as 'bastards', 'son-of-bitch', and the ever famous "FYYFF", etc. Strangers get this treatment too, as if they are instant friends.

I assure you if I addressed my Latino friends like this, we would no longer be friends, and some of us might even be dead for showing a lack of respect. When I lived in Europe in the 80's, I never noticed this type of behavior either. Is this something specific to the Anglophone culture, and was it always like this?

Z

More of a ADV advrider thing.

As for when started? It has been this way for a long time in the USA. May have started in WW2 among soldiers but I have seen westerns where it was done. More of a way to express affection between people that have been threw a lot together that the outsider will not get.

It is seen as a manly way to say hi, I like you a lot and lets shock the people that are not in the group.

If you follow the people that do this you will find they save this greeting for people they feel are good enof to be in there club the outsider will get a standard non feeling "HI" or Hello". It is far from showing a lack of respect it is a way to show the deepest respect and inclusion in the group.

I was also a US Army officer, I don't recall this mode of behavior in the army. Maybe it's a 'modern' behavorial thing, and I think those westerns may have been done in modern times and not necessarily reflective of the behavior in those actual times, at least amongst friends. Dunno.

I guess it's a cultural type of thing. Not sure I'll be able to adopt that part of the culture. As for 'group inclusion' I guess I am odd man out on that too. I ride pretty much solo. However, I don't see this behavior just amongst riders. Seems to be getting more and more prevalent in the US.

Anyways, thank you for answering.

Some do, but most don't. It's an integral part of the modern world, but that doesn't mean you, I, or anyone in particular have to participate or approve.

FWIW, I'm deep into my 50's now too, and I don't give anyone the finger unless I'm ready and willing to fight. This happens rather rarely: once or twice a decade. I haven't had to follow through yet, which is probably best.

I'm having trouble imagining the situation in which I'd use a gesture like this affectionately, or as a sign of inclusion. Surely this inability is just one more sign of my increasing age...but that's quite ok.

Those who do use such gestures or language intending no disrespect had best temper their impulses when away from home. In much of the world--as the OP pointed out--giving the finger might be bad for one's health.

enjoy,

Mark

Are you sure your not George Foreman ???
you got to love the USA

Hmmm. I received a nice PM on this subject. I tried to reply but a message came up saying, "You need 8 posts to reply and you only have 5". Okay, so now I have 6, and I do have some other questions to ask in other sections later on, so maybe I will get to 8 soon.

Yes, it could be an age thing. However, I do agree with markharf on tempering this tendency when outside of the Anglophone world.

For those of you who have travelled in the Latin World (and I am going to be bold and include France and Italy in this context), you may have noticed that how a person greets others, and how this person is greeted by others, in restaurants, pubs, and other public venues, often is an indicator of how that person is respected by his peers. So if someone walks into a venue in the Latin World and is greeted by the "FYYFF!" equivalent, jaws would drop and folks would scramble to get out of the way as guns and/or knives get drawn.

Right now I am in Lusophone Africa, where of course the FYYFF! culture has not "evolved", or maybe I should say "de-evolved"

Obrigado,

Z

This statement has me perplexed. If you don't mind me asking, what was your branch and years of service?

Salvation Army obviously, though no-one is ever rude to the Ruperts, eh? (quickly hides his past).

Top quote Mat! Even though you own a Bullet.

Even after my many years in the US, I can't bring myself to do "the finger", though there's a couple of times a year, usually on I-25, when I give a good old 2-fingered salute to someone in a crap car, who pulls in front of me and thinks I can brake from 80mph to 0 in 6ft. Which obtains nothing other than a perplexed look, which is probably a good thing...

Nick.

PS and before Matt gets me back, I'll point out I own Land Rovers, and 80mph may have been exaggerating a bit. But the crap driving on I-25 is very true.

__________________
Nick Taylor, a Colorado Mack'em
blog | vehicles

I agree with Strikingviking as the ADV community is an amazing family of very generous folks who are willing to help out in any way they can. In the case of my friend Brennan, who mods here, ADVrider's came together with parts for his bike so he could finish his South America ride after an accident in Panama.
The finger is just a joke among the initiated and at ADV rally's it is a common thing to see.
The funny part is to use the finger when there are other riders around who are clueless.

__________________
Ride Safe!!

Wow! You and your friends would commit murder over receiving the finger? What do you do if someone steals your parking place? Kill their family?

__________________
EARTH RIDE!
Understanding the world through adventure travel.
www.strikingviking.net

Nope, and that's not what my post said either.

However, I have seen your pictures, and it is considered more civil to give a thumbs-up, than give the finger So good for you.

Los feos (people with bad manners), OTOH, are usually just ignored, unless of course they get really nasty. Which I am sure you've also noticed during your residency in Mexico and travels in Latin America. Good luck on your upcoming adventure.

The middle finger salute over on advrider is just a humorous acknowledgment among the 100,000 registered users there. As you've seen in my photos, we don't offer that gesture to those outside of that community and even amongst ourselves abbreviate what has become a private joke--FYYFF. Many even have a decal with that designation on our bikes as a signal for others who understand the meaning.

Please don't take this as any kind of insult to anyone as you will have to look hard to find a more generous and kind hearted group of riders. Two years ago, Pete from Berkeley and I pitched the crew at advrider to donate sufficient funds to sponsor riders from developing countries for an all-expenses-paid moto-journey to North America.

The first rider was Chanderjeet from India and last year's was Shustrik from Vladivostok. Shustrik has been assisting so many international riders passing through Siberia for so many years, he has become a legend in hospitality. We wanted to repay that so we invited him over. In his case, Chanderjeet's, and this year's Lu Fei from China, it was easy to raise funds. Each year, within two weeks of announcements, over five thousand dollars in tens, twenties and a few hundreds poured into fill the coffers.

The way I see it, anyone who rides a bike is cool with me and that is basically the view over there. In spite of the garbage section of JoMomma, their crowning jewel on advrider is their Ride Reports threads which scores hundreds of thousands of hits. My thread is now at 2.2 million and many others are catching up. I'm trying to help Grant out over here now on his recently opened section for Ride Reports which should attract readers and posters.

__________________
EARTH RIDE!
Understanding the world through adventure travel.
www.strikingviking.net

SV,

I read the thread at ADVrider on the rider from China. And I also have a copy of your book. It looks like the rider from China is having a great time. And I am sure he will remember the Hooter's adventure, and what lays ahead on his ride. Yep, I understand the metaphor about the finger. Main gist of my post is (1) how this 'instant familiarity to insult' can be a flash point even in the US, since not all take it lightly, and (2) that in some countries this is always unacceptable, even amongst friends. I now you know that already, but it's more for those who haven't been outside of the Anglophone world.

The ride reports over at ADVrider are indeed a great resource. The Angola thread is incredible. I would like to see similar reports posted here as well. HUBB, I opine has a more studious feel to it, which suits me better for doing ride research and topic discussion in general.

Z