A few of my customers are IAM advanced riders. And I was encouraged to try it.

I've been riding for 25 years. On and offroad. All over the world. Track days, touring, the lot. I thought I was pretty good and knew it all.

So I paid my £175 to the IAM and I was placed with my local advanced rider group.

I've only been out twice. Being observed at close distance for fun rides lasting 4-5 hours. Plenty of coffee & cake stops where you're given hints, advice and valuable road craft. Your day is graded and detailed advice emailed to you.

In just two sessons I'm a faster, safer and far more confident rider. I learnt so much and I've still got plenty of sessions to go before my examination. I've picked up some terrible habbits over the years.. And I'm nowhere near as observant as I'd thought. But it's also nice to hear the positive things they observe too.

If there are any riders struggling with confidence, experience or feeling vulnerable on a bike, then I 100% recommend taking an advanced rider course.

There is nothing like honest feedback to improve one's riding.

Ted


https://www.iamroadsmart.com/

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I did IAM Roadsmart a few years ago, having been riding for 45 years, more out of curiosity than anything else. I wanted to see if there was indeed anything they could teach an old dog. I went for 1-1 tuition and I immediately twigged my observer as a nitpicker of the highest order. To be fair, it kept me on my toes and made me raise my game, but I wouldn't describe it as fun. I'd mentioned when we first met that I used to race and he kept going on about me taking racing lines. Yeah, I do, but because they're generally the smoothest lines round corners. Their idea about hugging the outside of every bend seems terrible to me - you end up either in the gutter or too near the crown of the road, and invariably you have to move over for oncoming traffic anyway. And it really doesn't give you any extra visibility. Keeping religiously to speed limits wasn't something that endeared me either, I prefer to use a bit of personal judgement.

But I did come away with some useful learning, to be fair. I realised that better forward observation can avoid a lot of problems, and that I don't look back enough. And the two second rule is a bloody good one. Worth it? I'd say if you're about 10 years into their riding life you're ready to give this a go. 20 or 30 years on you probably know as much as the observer, you just haven't got the badge that says so

I can absoutely understand what you're saying. There are obviously a few people in it who are there because they're fastitious know-it-alls. And if you're anything like me and don't like being told what to you, it can be a hard pill to swallow.

But with my group, I haven't come accross that yet. Just a great bunch of guys who ride as you would when they clock off.

I've probably ridden far more miles in different conditions than most if not all the observers. I've been riding daily for 25 years all over the world. The hardest thing to shake off an experienced rider is arogance. But I couldn't deny their obseravations.

I was missing 50% of road signs. I wasn't checking my mirrors or blindspots. I didn't know that straighlining roundabouts was faster AND legal. I didn't know you could cut bends on junctions etc. And most suprisingly I was told that I signal too often and I should be making faster progress through some situations. I was arrogant and stuck in my ways.

Re. Your point about them always riding the outside of bends. That's not in the book or what I've been taught. It's adjusting your position for maximum visibility. Which is the outside. Then you can cut in for a faster, more stable line.

I'm a spirited rider. And I was very surprised when I was constantly being told to accelerate harder and make more progress.

They're not teaching racing lines. They're teaching how to be SAFER, smoother, make progress, how to read the road and how to be more courtious with other road users.

IDEAL skills for Overlanding or anything else.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

That was my attitude as well but the problem, especially with cars, is that you take a test when you are in your teens, and then are let loose with a two ton metal people crusher, and never expected to take another test for the rest of your life. About 25 years ago, I was at a track day driving my M Roadster and there was an IAM caravan there offering free assessments of one's driving. I thought it would be fun to have someone tell me how good a driver I was. Ha! I was absolutely pulled to pieces, including the ultimate humiliation of being told I wasn't going fast enough (was dawdling along at 48 mph in a 60 zone).

Me too.

So I signed up and for several months each Sunday would go out with a different observer. One drive almost ended the wrong way when the observer said he wanted me to turn the car to face the opposite direction, and to use the handbrake. I thought he meant a handbrake turn.

When I took my bike and car tests in the 1960s, road signs were not so well thought out, and I had taken to ignoring them and instead reading the road, so consequently missed much information. My hazard awareness was also very low. Some of the car things were nitpicking, such as not allowing the handbrake to ratchet (had to hold the button in). They were also insistent upon the 'block change' where you stay in a high gear when approaching a roundabout and then only at the last moment change from say, fifth gear to first or second. But by the time I took the test I had changed to a car with a 'sequential manual gearbox' in which you had no choice but to go through the gears which annoyed some of the more anal observers. I also got special dispensation from IAM Head Office to take the test using my left foot for brake which is how I drive autos and SMG boxes.

Learning to signal instead of indicating was hard to swallow. The IAM method is as you approach a junction you start to check mirrors *very carefully* well in advance, get prepared for the junction, check again for other traffic, pedestrians, etc., and then ONLY signal is there is someone around who would benefit from your signal. "But what if there's someone I haven't seen?" was my objection and was told "Then that shows you've not checked carefully enough."

So yes, all these years later I don't blindly indicate, instead I selectively signal. And I try to time the signal so it only flashes eight times before I start to take the turn at which point I manually cancel the signal—useful training for when you have a bike that doesn't automatically cancel signals.

I recognised how my driving had improved, so when I took up biking again in 2005 I signed up for the bike version of the IAM course and this time it was a single observer all the way through, who happened to be my Police Inspector neighbour and ex-police motorcyclist. I can hand-on-heart say he is probably the reason I am still alive now, as he taught me so much on the hazard awareness, road positioning, counter steering and other fronts.

What I didn't expect is that the training raised my biking enjoyment level as well. In the meantime, Roadcraft should be required reading.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Interesting posts that touch upon something that's been an active topic with a friend of mine for the last couple of years, and something he's written about in a club magazine (VJMC) to the considerable ire of a number of other members. He didn't get on at all well with the local IAM group (or the ROSPA group he tried afterwards). He found enough of them to be unfriendly 'fastitious know-it-alls' pushing him beyond his comfort limits that sticking with it wasn't for him. Ok, a one off and obviously not everyone's experience but it resonated with me yesterday when I saw the local group riding through a village near here. From my pedestrian (I was running) perspective they were aggressive and noisy (accelerating 'harder' at the derestriction sign) and the few cars that were mixed up in the group just wanted them past and gone. My conclusion was if that's advanced riding I'll stick with my basic version. I suppose it would look different if you're the one in the saddle but as an outsider I wasn't impressed.

I should give it another go.

Did ROSPA gold a good 15 years ago. Wall to wall white BMW's, bearded riders wearing "POLITE" vests and totally idiocy "making progress". The best bit was when one overtook on a bend, ran wide onto a solid painted box and made a ****er shaped hole in a hedge. Not his fault if course. If only he'd had actual blue lights and a warrant card he'd have arrested the highways agency, the car he tried to pass and Michael Fish

Bikesafe was better but plod doesn't have the manpower anymore.

They have apparently changed, so thanks for posting confirmation.

Andy

Things may have changed since, but there was definitely a disconnect between the IAM training and the activities of the East Sussex Advanced Motorcyclists group when out on a club ride. I felt ill-at-ease with the "progress" being made, had little chance to take in the scenery or enjoy the riding. Then when we reached traffic lights one guy crashed his fairly old Triumph sports bike causing so much damage to the fairing and front fork that it was probably a write-off. I didn't do any more club runs.

My friend Martin was also an IAM observer and we were in France heading for the ferry ports when the petrol station we stopped at had no petrol. The next station was far away and also possibly out of petrol, and we had two choices, either run out of fuel, or drop the speed and miss the ferry. So I asked Martin to ride in front of me at a constant rock-steady speed whilst I slipstreamed him just inches from his rear tyre. I was getting something like 70 mpg on a 1200GS (it helped that he is 6'4") and we made the ferry with fuel to spare.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

I've never had a problem with "making progress" I certainly don't ride as spiritedly as I used to but for many years I've been used to seeing speed limits as advisory and reading the road ahead. Perhaps that's why I found it frustrating on the IAM rides to have to keep an eagle eye on speed limit signs. For the same reason I didn't have an issue with accelerating out of limits... I accelerate at my rate, I don't aim to get up to the higher limit as soon as it changes. I must be doing something right, I managed a 1st class pass and never been fined for speeding (touch wood)

I had three separate interactions with IAM, 1st was shortly after my then-girlfriend passed her test - we went on a bike safe course that was run by them instead of the police. I really wanted help to find any bad habits I might be blind to, update my outlook on road riding (having done zero training since passing my test), and to help my wife have more confidence. To sum it up, it was patronising and less worthwhile than watching a video on youtube.

Second was a free taster day with a short observed ride and a bit of socialising with the local group. Neither of us felt very comfortable during the socialising part, and we both felt we were being pushed to ride more aggressively to the point of it being dangerous (by this time my other half had developed into a track demon and had found her confidence, she just refused to ride aggressively on the road). We left early.

Third was the IAM women's track training day at Thuxton, and that was absolutely great. I was in the quickest A group, on the slowest bike, and really got to push myself and the bike to the limit. Also, it was very social and we were giving each other helpful feedback and having a laugh too. My wife was in a slightly slower group which held her up (luck of the draw I think), and they had someone crash which took the wind out of her sails a bit.
...

The best training I've done outside of that track day was Hopp Rider Training, Fire Bike with the Essex Fire Brigade, Biker Down with the Hampshire Fire Brigade (IIRC), and group rides where the group was more than 50% women. For on-road riding stuff like Moto Gymkhana and good track training is, IMO, far more useful than IAM.

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FreeBSD fan since before it was cool ...

I think the generaly vibe with the IAM is "It depends who you get".

If you get an arse of an observer, it will ruin the entire experience. But also consider than maybe YOU'RE the arse.

You have to leave your ego at the gate. If you're the " I've been riding 30 years and no one can teach me anything" type, then you're not going to enjoy the criticism one bit.

At the end of the day, no one can take your licence off you or force to complete the course. But if you can open your mind and bite your lip, you may learn a lot. And then it's up to yourself if you ignore it or use it.

I can definately recommend my local Wirral Advanced motorcyclists group.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I did the IAM back in the mid 1990s, by which time I had already been a daily rider for 25 years. The guy who was my mentor was a star and I learned a lot. I recommend doing it.

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You look at where you're going and where you are and it never makes sense, but then you look back at where you've been and a pattern seems to emerge. (Pirsig)

Tomkat.......best stay clear of Switzerland me thinks

Just read the entire thread and some honest realistic comments made. I myself can't say what a good rider actually is but I know one thing, riding bikes from 16 years of age to now 60 my last crash was at the age of 21 and I'm still a fast road rider that can't abide group riding. I've often been tempted to try the IAM for pure intrigue and I'm sure to have some bad habits according to them. Old habits die hard as they say and the very reason we ride bikes is because of the adrenaline rush that comes from acceleration and corner speed. I reckon most of us older riders have become safe riders through sheer experience and the miles left behind us, we 'survived' the 80's and 90's dicing death on a Sunday afternoon on the latest sports bike of choice....
Could I handle a nit pickers comments on my riding..?? Hmmm, probably yes to a degree. Would I now benefit from passing an IAM course, probably not if I'm honest. Riding bikes on UK roads is not pleasurable at all in general and what happens when you get a clear road ahead..?? Yes sir indeed, you ride in that 'spirited' mode and speed limits go straight out the window along with your good habits so I'll carry on as I am for UK riding.

I do however think it's not a bad thing to have as a younger rider and perhaps encouraged to go for several years into your biking/riding life.
As for most folk here on HU who have rode various parts of the world and survived a few decades doing so well I think you're part of an unspoken club of advanced riders with skillsets not required for fast A roads or M roads...!!
A valid post Ted and a good read..

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

I see your point. I also have more 'miles and overlanding' experience than many of the people observing me. I've done three sessions now and even though they compliment some parts of my riding they still pull me up on other stuff. And during these briefings, as hard as it is to hear, they're bloody correct on their observations. It's frustrating to hear.

Observation is my biggest fault. Forward and back. I ride with a sixth sense like anyone who's done the miles. But I miss LOADS of information.

My knowledge of the highway code is diabolical also.

My incorrect presumption was that the IAM ride slow and boring.

It's been the absolute opposite. It's all about PROGRESSION PROGRESSION PROGRESSION. Safe filtering, threading roundabouts, over-taking, reading the road to go faster.

When you're training to ride safe and read the road you make great progress very easily.

LOADS of the people on the course are older. And it's a great social experience also.

I'm enjoying it more and more.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Playing devil's advocate now........I always hear alot of I'm a fast / handy rider from my customers who are mostly between 40 + 65..........so I'm guessing about the age of the people reading this post . Co incidentally my friend who was a crash investigator before he retired stated that of all the fatal motorcycle accidents he dealt with most of them were the riders fault and the age range was..........
I would argue that bit of training is going to be far more effective then that end can you bolt on