I've got a 1200, a "2010" so DOHC it's great just a bit slow and under powered..

Yup! That's what we're aiming for next year. A 650 will suit us fine (one each).

And, assuming the word SandroRoma was looking for was 'underrated', I don't think any of the sub-1000cc BMW range are underrated as RTW bikes. Quite the reverse, in fact. IMO the mighty 1200GS has rather lost its prestige as a RTW bike now that so many are used as executive toys and commuter bikes.

Regardless of how many are used as executive toys and commuter bikes, the 1200GS has never been the best choice for a "real" RTW trip, simply because of its size and weight (leaving aside the question of reliability, etc.). Therefore its "prestige" as a RTW bike was wholly manufactured, albeit rather skillfully, by BMW.

Personally, if I were sticking to more or less developed countries and intended to generally stick to tarmac, I'd get a 1200GS. For anything else, I'd get a 650. One of the problems is that there are not that many good 650s to choose from, at least in some markets.

You can't really make a simple conclusion. It depends on many things like the type of roads you will travel and the weight you carry and your own size and strength.

It seems people are comparing the BMW 800 and 1200. I don't like the 800. The rims ding too easy and the front suspension is so soft it nose dives when braking. That means more money to redo the front end. the throttle is snatchy and the wind blast terrible.I don't think the range if the 800 is any greater than the 1200.

Going smaller to a thumper, well on long days who wants the vibration and lack of power?

The problem with the 1200 is C&E. They have turned it into a poser thing so that everyone buys one. BMW will tell you 90% of them never see dirt. Even here. It must be far worse in Europe and USA. That means BMW makes it softer and with more gimmicks to please the bulk of the buyers, who don't ride off road. The same thing has happened with 4x4 vehicles. The soccer moms, yuppies, and city crowd has turned them into status symbols. Who would seriously go off road now with a Fortuner?

Even worse, KTM has succumbed to this trend. The 1190 is now more road oriented with all the BMW gimmicks and a small front rim (unless you get the R). The demand for serious off road touring bikes (and 4x4s) is a small minority of the demand. So manufacturers follow the trend. Don't blame BMW. Blame the yuppies who buy them for status.

I agree with you!
I believe you about the situation in South Africa because I've never been there (i will one day).
You are right about Europe, at least in my city, Roma.
Roma is full of layers that have chosen the "adventurous" GS1200 for going every day from office to court on an "adventurous" city treck!

That's why as you said BMW is weakening the GS with Electronial knick-knack and a luxurious design.
Because they won't go adventuring in off-road!

For istance: Who will really go off road with a Porsche Cayenne? I think not a single owner of it, who if really wanted to do would have bought a much better Land Rover Discovery. Isn't?

Alessandro

I don't think there is any need to criticize people for buying the R1200GS as a commuter bike, for which it is generally very good. I use mine regularly in Moscow traffic and it gives excellent visibility and lots of power to stay out of trouble.

Would you be happier if people commuted on Harleys? Or why care at all what they commute on?

I'm sorry Motoreiter,

I didn't mean to criticize you and all the others using a GS for city traffic. Maybe you don't have this kind of "problem" in Moscow, but what I was trying to say is that many people here in Italy (at least in Rome) usually buy GS not because it's a great machine (I have one too) but because nowadays having a GS it's a status symbol and you will see many people that from scooter have turned to GS saying that they have gone great adventures when the greatest that they actually do is facing the traffic in Rome. So my point is, if they want to have a Gs because they like it, say it. They don't need to say what the market want them to say.

Hope the misunderstanding is solved now

Alessandro

1200GS No way. Way too big and heavy. Nothing to do with the badge. Super Ten, Big KTM's the same. Built for road and nicely graded tracks at most.

*Cue someone posting a video of a 1200GS riding through a puddle*

Like said, even the 800cc is too big. However the 800GS is surprisingly light and nimble for it's CC. I was pleasantly surprised by it.

Personally though. Japanese 650 thumper.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

My 'big' KTM goes in far more places than road and nicely graded track. That isn't me in the pic by the way!

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Alessandro, I agree with you mostly. For many GS owners (but not all) ownership is about the badge and how the bike looks, not what it is capable of. It's a bit like seeing fancy 4X4's in any city you care to think of.
I live in a seaside town which is on the main road between a city and a larger seaside town just a few miles away from me. Any Sunday (and especially when the sun is out!) I will see quite a few GS's or similar adventure bikes heading from the city to the seaside. Follow them to the seaside and you find them all parked in the same place with the owners standing admiring each others bikes even though they're all pretty much identical. Look a bit closer and you can see that most of them are spotless, no more than 2 or 3 years old, and none of them have done more than 2-3000 miles over that time. A lot of them have the full metal luggage, GPS, and every adventure related piece of equipment you can imagine. If it rains these guys go crazy trying to get their bikes under cover!
But if that's their choice then so be it. Many people like the thought of being able to go "adventuring" even if they never actually do it. In some ways I (and many others) would be a bit like that. I admire the looks of these bikes and I would love to have one in my garage along with my R1150RT even though I would never use one to 10% of it's capability. The RT is my choice because it is a lovely comfortable tourer and not because of the badge. I have had other tourers and nothing comes close in my opinion. If it performed the way it does and had a Jailinghongkong badge on it I'd still ride it and enjoy every minute of it.

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"Life is too short to drink cheap wine!"

You got my point!

er, OK, and you know this how? And you even know how many kilometers these guys have ridden, wow!

Sure, not everyone buys the R1200GS to ride RTW, but surely that is a good thing, since it is not the best for that. In fact, however, the GS is a great tourer and commuter bike, so I'm sure plenty have people have bought it for those purposes, for either of which they might want to have the cases, etc. (although I wouldn't use them for commuting...).

The R1200GS is a great bike. People buy it for different reasons and purposes, and frankly why does anyone care? Get over it...

Whoa! Steady on old chum and hold on to your panties!
I was simply replying to a comment made by Sandro. I was not saying that EVERY owner of a GS toodles around the countryside. I was saying that quite a few of them do. What they do with their bikes, their money or their ego is of no concern to me. I was merely quoting a real life example of this fact. Are you also going to question the validity of my comments?


I know what I know because my eyesight is pretty dammed good, even if I say so myself. I like bikes, I like to look at bikes, I like to ride bikes and I have even been known to chat to other bikers and look at their bikes too. And when a 2 year old bike that gleams in the sunshine like it had just came out of the factory has an odometer reading of 2683 miles (or something like that) then it's a reasonable assumption that it's not on it's 2nd or 3rd trip around the clock. Or even the world for that matter.
And if you can't understand that then I am not the person to help you!


Perhaps you should read the last paragraph of my previous post. Read it again (slowly this time) and you'll see that I am in agreement with what you're unsuccessfully trying to say!

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"Life is too short to drink cheap wine!"

Why is it that whenever BMW is mentioned it seems like WW3 will erupt? Sabre rattling, defensive positions, attacks, etc. The world is divided into the haves and have nots: those that have a BMW and does that don't

Maybe the BMW word should be considered non PC and banned. Words like beemer boys should be like the N word: taboo except for the most bike bigoted. rather say those who have the blue propeller, the B word, etc

Its just too tantalisingly delicious not to comment on a BMW thread to most.. I'm also guilty of it. It's like picking a scab..

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.